paizo.com Recent Posts in NPC Companions (spoilers)paizo.com Recent Posts in NPC Companions (spoilers)2018-09-13T03:36:07Z2018-09-13T03:36:07ZRe: Forums: Owlcat Pathfinder CRPGs: NPC Companions (spoilers)Delightfulhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs429p1?NPC-Companions#342018-09-29T16:21:01Z2018-09-29T16:21:01Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Voss wrote:</div><blockquote><p> New least favorite companion: Nok Nok</p>
<p>I'm not sure why most rulers would take him along. </p>
<p>I'm not sure why his stats are so bad- He has two positive modifiers.
<br />
Max Dex and +1 Con, 3 negatives, including strength, of course. Between his stats and his class, he's pretty much going to fail any save that isn't reflex. </p>
<p>Oh, and he's a knife master rogue. I can see him doing damage, but such a one trick glass cannon...</p>
<p>I'm not sure why anyone in the capital or the party wouldn't just smother him in his sleep. He actively tells people he's Lamashtu's favored in the middle of a crisis. </blockquote><p>Well my kingdom has freedom of religion as part of its Constitution, so baby-eating Lamashtu worshipers must be tolerated, I say!Voss wrote:New least favorite companion: Nok Nok
I'm not sure why most rulers would take him along.
I'm not sure why his stats are so bad- He has two positive modifiers.
Max Dex and +1 Con, 3 negatives, including strength, of course. Between his stats and his class, he's pretty much going to fail any save that isn't reflex.
Oh, and he's a knife master rogue. I can see him doing damage, but such a one trick glass cannon...
I'm not sure why anyone in the capital or the party wouldn't just...Delightful2018-09-29T16:21:01ZRe: Forums: Owlcat Pathfinder CRPGs: NPC Companions (spoilers)Vosshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs429p1?NPC-Companions#332018-09-29T16:18:53Z2018-09-29T07:21:29Z<p>New least favorite companion: Nok Nok</p>
<p>I'm not sure why most rulers would take him along. </p>
<p>I'm not sure why his stats are so bad- He has two positive modifiers.
<br />
Max Dex and +1 Con, 3 negatives, including strength, of course. Between his stats and his class, he's pretty much going to fail any save that isn't reflex. </p>
<p>Oh, and he's a knife master rogue. I can see him doing damage, but such a one trick glass cannon...</p>
<p>I'm not sure why anyone in the capital or the party wouldn't just smother him in his sleep. He actively tells people he's Lamashtu's favored in the middle of a crisis.</p>New least favorite companion: Nok Nok
I'm not sure why most rulers would take him along.
I'm not sure why his stats are so bad- He has two positive modifiers.
Max Dex and +1 Con, 3 negatives, including strength, of course. Between his stats and his class, he's pretty much going to fail any save that isn't reflex.
Oh, and he's a knife master rogue. I can see him doing damage, but such a one trick glass cannon...
I'm not sure why anyone in the capital or the party wouldn't just smother him...Voss2018-09-29T07:21:29ZRe: Forums: Owlcat Pathfinder CRPGs: NPC Companions (spoilers)Catharsishttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs429p1?NPC-Companions#322018-09-27T17:52:35Z2018-09-27T17:25:14Z<p>If Sneak Attack is relatively easy to come by, would Valerie profit from a Vivisectionist level and Accomplished Sneak Attacker? She doesn’t have the Int for extracts, but Mutagen would be nice. I don’t supposed it can be rebrewed in an hour like the real thing, though...?</p>If Sneak Attack is relatively easy to come by, would Valerie profit from a Vivisectionist level and Accomplished Sneak Attacker? She doesn’t have the Int for extracts, but Mutagen would be nice. I don’t supposed it can be rebrewed in an hour like the real thing, though...?Catharsis2018-09-27T17:25:14ZRe: Forums: Owlcat Pathfinder CRPGs: NPC Companions (spoilers)Thebazillyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs429p1?NPC-Companions#312018-09-27T16:24:03Z2018-09-27T15:49:30Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">wraithstrike wrote:</div><blockquote>Difficulty spoilers</blockquote><p>Yeah, I've been playing on Normal with a few tweaks upwards to emulate the tabletop system, and it's been a bit brutal. I turned the difficulty back down to Normal yesterday and that's much better.
<p>Linzi isn't a bad Bard. She's one of the companions I have the least problem with. I ditched Valerie's build immediately to try out the aforementioned Scaled Fist Monk/Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple/Eldritch Knight multiclass abomination. Party is still level 4, so Mage Armor and Crane Style are making that viable for the moment.</p>
<p>I just got to the Kingdom part of the game last night, so I'm looking forward to playing some more once I'm done with work!</p>wraithstrike wrote:Difficulty spoilers
Yeah, I've been playing on Normal with a few tweaks upwards to emulate the tabletop system, and it's been a bit brutal. I turned the difficulty back down to Normal yesterday and that's much better. Linzi isn't a bad Bard. She's one of the companions I have the least problem with. I ditched Valerie's build immediately to try out the aforementioned Scaled Fist Monk/Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple/Eldritch Knight multiclass abomination. Party is still level 4, so...Thebazilly2018-09-27T15:49:30ZRe: Forums: Owlcat Pathfinder CRPGs: NPC Companions (spoilers)Vosshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs429p1?NPC-Companions#302018-09-27T10:09:05Z2018-09-27T07:37:17Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">wraithstrike wrote:</div><blockquote> I understand that the NPC's aren't going to be optimized like PC's would be, but Linzi, who I actually like is not helping. I'm going to give her the feats that let her do dex to damage since I like her character. That way she can be useful, and not completely defenseless if someone gets to her. </blockquote><p>Linzi's one of the few that seems fairly optimized to me. She's got her important stats at solid values, has Con, and the Int fits her character without detracting much, or making her one note.
<p>I've done chapter one twice now (gave up on the Magus, and the way I built most of the NPCs), and very, very rarely do enemies flank around to my archers. </p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>I'm dropping the tower shield fighter in favor of a custom PC in both of the games I have started, and I'm giving Amiri a normal size sword, and throwing some armor on her to see if that helps. She kills everything, but also gets hit too easily. </blockquote><p>I kept Valerie, but leveled her in Rogue (Thug). She's very nasty that way (though I need to actually double check to see if she's actually inflicting conditions). I put the tower shield aside for the moment, but sneak attack in general is absurdly good in this game.
<p>Amiri I put into Fighter (Twohander Specialist). I like the damage output from her Ginormous sword, but I hate her squishynes. My first time through I was compensating heavily for it, and it didn't make any difference.</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>I like Jaethal. I think she'll be fun to keep around in both campaigns, especially the first one with the paladin as a main character. </blockquote><p>I really wanted to like her, it seemed like an interesting concept. So far, though, she requires an absurd amount of special treatment to heal and isn't a valid target for several important buffs, not being a person.
<p>And while her story might eventually turn interesting, at the moment her dialogue is 'I'm a murderous hedonistic nihilist without point or purpose, and I don't know what I'm doing.' That's... significantly less interesting than I had hoped..</p>
<p>And apparently (according to some camping party banter), elves don't read books. They find them an unnecessary crutch of the short-lived. Fie, Fie on this dead thing. </p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>The others I'm undecided on. </blockquote><p>I'm honestly torn on Octavia. She's a bit...chipper... for a font of suffering (listen to her voiceover a few times then delve into her background. It's honestly dissonant how happy she is with a large variety of nasty mistreatment. And also flirty. And she's a prime candidate to help you run your barony, because...?).
<p>The build is over specialized to the point of being a problem (squish) and it works out to 29 point buy to pull it off!, and I'd hate the rogue/wizard thing a lot less if there were other NPC casters that weren't clerics. Granted it's easy to get into arcane trickster without burning any more levels in rogue, but I would have liked going into the Stag Lord fight with 3rd level spells. </p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>•• spoiler omitted •• </blockquote><p>I'm actually running on Custom/Challenging, with the only change being enemies reduced from tougher to normal, but damage is still at 1.0 and real crits.
<p>Mostly it isn't bad, but sometimes it is a little frustrating. I don't mind some hard random encounters, but there are some early mandatory encounters that are just nuts, and some of the bonuses... especially, for some reason, on various types of wolves and that set piece with a single mature leopard... just nuts. </p>
<p>Crazy AC, HP and hit bonuses, and no real reason for it.
<br />
Save scumming is required, and far too often, there isn't much that could be done. Just hope people don't smack you for 50+ damage when you're less than 5th level. And don't challenge certain monsters without a lot of buffs. It has some very good examples of the 5 minute adventuring day though. Especially if you don't prioritize getting the clerics to join.</p>
<p>Stupid lonely shambler killing multiple characters with chained attacks</p>
<p>——
<br />
@Phillip Gastone-
<br />
I think the real nemesis of Chapter One is a certain tree-bear. It hits like a truck, and has absurd DR (and sadly no indication of what breaches it).</p>
<p>For people just going along doing the story for the first time, it's an absolutely unwinnable fight. There isn't significant access to special materials (a cold iron dagger in a box, but requires you to go to the old sycamore first, and I don't know for sure that it's actually helpful).</p>
<p>Elsewise you need to layer melee buffs, and set Octavia to acid duty, and it's still a rough fight, dictated by MC RNG-hates-ya.</p>wraithstrike wrote:I understand that the NPC's aren't going to be optimized like PC's would be, but Linzi, who I actually like is not helping. I'm going to give her the feats that let her do dex to damage since I like her character. That way she can be useful, and not completely defenseless if someone gets to her.
Linzi's one of the few that seems fairly optimized to me. She's got her important stats at solid values, has Con, and the Int fits her character without detracting much, or making...Voss2018-09-27T07:37:17ZRe: Forums: Owlcat Pathfinder CRPGs: NPC Companions (spoilers)Phillip Gastone (alias of Andrea1)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs429p1?NPC-Companions#292018-09-27T04:17:15Z2018-09-27T04:17:15Z<p>Tip for a certain very nasty cave! Spoilers if ya want them
<br />
[Spoiler omitted]</p>Tip for a certain very nasty cave! Spoilers if ya want them
[Spoiler omitted]Phillip Gastone (alias of Andrea1)2018-09-27T04:17:15ZRe: Forums: Owlcat Pathfinder CRPGs: NPC Companions (spoilers)wraithstrike (alias of concerro)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs429p1?NPC-Companions#282018-09-27T04:12:41Z2018-09-27T04:12:41Z<p>I understand that the NPC's aren't going to be optimized like PC's would be, but Linzi, who I actually like is not helping. I'm going to give her the feats that let her do dex to damage since I like her character. That way she can be useful, and not completely defenseless if someone gets to her. </p>
<p>I'm dropping the tower shield fighter in favor of a custom PC in both of the games I have started, and I'm giving Amiri a normal size sword, and throwing some armor on her to see if that helps. She kills everything, but also gets hit too easily. </p>
<p>I like Jaethal. I think she'll be fun to keep around in both campaigns, especially the first one with the paladin as a main character. </p>
<p>I'm keeping the battle cleric also. </p>
<p>The others I'm undecided on. </p>
<p>[Spoiler omitted]</p>I understand that the NPC's aren't going to be optimized like PC's would be, but Linzi, who I actually like is not helping. I'm going to give her the feats that let her do dex to damage since I like her character. That way she can be useful, and not completely defenseless if someone gets to her.
I'm dropping the tower shield fighter in favor of a custom PC in both of the games I have started, and I'm giving Amiri a normal size sword, and throwing some armor on her to see if that helps. She...wraithstrike (alias of concerro)2018-09-27T04:12:41ZRe: Forums: Owlcat Pathfinder CRPGs: NPC Companions (spoilers)Catharsishttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs429p1?NPC-Companions#272018-09-26T18:20:02Z2018-09-26T18:20:02Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Voss wrote:</div><blockquote>Thanks to trawling too many beta videos, I've also stumbled on the bit where a player accidentally starts the romantic chain with her (and it seems like the most reasonable and innocuous dialogue line out of what was presented), and her response is 'if it were anyone but you saying that...' which is doubly unfortunate. </blockquote><p>Jeez, do I <i>have</i> to go into this creepy «I have noticed your beauty» option literally after she just unloaded her rant about people doing that all the time? Is this a necessary step for branching into the romance? Does the game actually tell you when you start on a romance path?Voss wrote:Thanks to trawling too many beta videos, I've also stumbled on the bit where a player accidentally starts the romantic chain with her (and it seems like the most reasonable and innocuous dialogue line out of what was presented), and her response is 'if it were anyone but you saying that...' which is doubly unfortunate.
Jeez, do I have to go into this creepy «I have noticed your beauty» option literally after she just unloaded her rant about people doing that all the time? Is this...Catharsis2018-09-26T18:20:02ZRe: Forums: Owlcat Pathfinder CRPGs: NPC Companions (spoilers)Phillip Gastone (alias of Andrea1)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs429p1?NPC-Companions#262018-09-26T01:28:23Z2018-09-26T01:28:23Z<p>I thought of something like an optional rule, Burnout.</p>
<p>A peril of all artists, this can be a definite problem for Shelynites and her exalteds. Due to the constant pressure to create to use their abilities(Don't have the rule book so I don't remember the requirements) one risks failing to have any more inspiration.</p>
<p>I was thinking an increasing DC level to create using perform/craft/profession if there is non stop use of it. Once a check is failed, the character is burned-out and can only make mediocre quality products. Ways to help cure burn-out can be travel to different locations for inspiration, rest for a certain amount of time or other methods.</p>I thought of something like an optional rule, Burnout.
A peril of all artists, this can be a definite problem for Shelynites and her exalteds. Due to the constant pressure to create to use their abilities(Don't have the rule book so I don't remember the requirements) one risks failing to have any more inspiration.
I was thinking an increasing DC level to create using perform/craft/profession if there is non stop use of it. Once a check is failed, the character is burned-out and can only...Phillip Gastone (alias of Andrea1)2018-09-26T01:28:23ZRe: Forums: Owlcat Pathfinder CRPGs: NPC Companions (spoilers)Phillip Gastone (alias of Andrea1)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs429p1?NPC-Companions#252018-09-24T22:02:24Z2018-09-24T22:02:24Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Voss wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Phillip Gastone wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Workplace harassment is ok with Shelyn?!</p>
<p>"Oh come on, I need love. Why won't you love me? Shelyn wants you to love me."</p>
<p>Knowledge Skill: Negging</blockquote><p>No, you need to flip it. It isn't negging, it isn't even requests for love. It's the constant flow of being told how beautiful you are, the constant poetry, praise and asking to be paint, or music dedicated to you, non-stop.
<p>It isn't directly negative, but when the central focus of how people interact with you is solely your beauty rather than your accomplishments and what you can do, it would get really old, really fast. Especially in a case like this, when the character's beauty is worth very little to her, and her skills define herself.</p>
<p>Would still fall into modern definitions of harassment, but you'd quickly become hyper-aware that with age and professional hazards (like scars from battles), their empty praise will vanish right quick. </blockquote><p>Well Shelyn has been described as shallow..Voss wrote:Phillip Gastone wrote:Workplace harassment is ok with Shelyn?!
"Oh come on, I need love. Why won't you love me? Shelyn wants you to love me."
Knowledge Skill: Negging
No, you need to flip it. It isn't negging, it isn't even requests for love. It's the constant flow of being told how beautiful you are, the constant poetry, praise and asking to be paint, or music dedicated to you, non-stop. It isn't directly negative, but when the central focus of how people interact with you is...Phillip Gastone (alias of Andrea1)2018-09-24T22:02:24ZRe: Forums: Owlcat Pathfinder CRPGs: NPC Companions (spoilers)Catharsishttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs429p1?NPC-Companions#242018-09-24T07:15:05Z2018-09-24T07:14:35Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Voss wrote:</div><blockquote>Valerie the paladin would be dull and one-note.</blockquote><p>Now, now, there’s plenty of intresting Paladin stories to tell as well... ;)
<p>Even knowing Valerie’s backstory, I could see her pick up the mantle of a more deserving deity. Paladin of Erastil or Abadar would work well, and make optimal use of her abilities. It would still require an alignment change, though (perhaps from the example of a Good leader...?).</p>Voss wrote:Valerie the paladin would be dull and one-note.
Now, now, there’s plenty of intresting Paladin stories to tell as well... ;) Even knowing Valerie’s backstory, I could see her pick up the mantle of a more deserving deity. Paladin of Erastil or Abadar would work well, and make optimal use of her abilities. It would still require an alignment change, though (perhaps from the example of a Good leader...?).Catharsis2018-09-24T07:14:35ZRe: Forums: Owlcat Pathfinder CRPGs: NPC Companions (spoilers)Vosshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs429p1?NPC-Companions#232018-09-26T10:35:20Z2018-09-24T01:10:04Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Phillip Gastone wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Workplace harassment is ok with Shelyn?!</p>
<p>"Oh come on, I need love. Why won't you love me? Shelyn wants you to love me."</p>
<p>Knowledge Skill: Negging</blockquote><p>No, you need to flip it. It isn't negging, it isn't even requests for love. It's the constant flow of being told how beautiful you are, the constant poetry, praise and asking to be paint, or music dedicated to you, non-stop.
<p>It isn't directly negative, but when the central focus of how people interact with you is solely your beauty rather than your accomplishments and what you can do, it would get really old, really fast. Especially in a case like this, when the character's beauty is worth very little to her, and her skills define herself.</p>
<p>Would still fall into modern definitions of harassment, but you'd quickly become hyper-aware that with age and professional hazards (like scars from battles), their empty praise will vanish right quick.</p>Phillip Gastone wrote:Workplace harassment is ok with Shelyn?!
"Oh come on, I need love. Why won't you love me? Shelyn wants you to love me."
Knowledge Skill: Negging
No, you need to flip it. It isn't negging, it isn't even requests for love. It's the constant flow of being told how beautiful you are, the constant poetry, praise and asking to be paint, or music dedicated to you, non-stop. It isn't directly negative, but when the central focus of how people interact with you is solely your...Voss2018-09-24T01:10:04ZRe: Forums: Owlcat Pathfinder CRPGs: NPC Companions (spoilers)Phillip Gastone (alias of Andrea1)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs429p1?NPC-Companions#222018-09-24T00:59:33Z2018-09-24T00:58:57Z<p>Workplace harassment is ok with Shelyn?!</p>
<p>"Oh come on, I need love. Why won't you love me? Shelyn wants you to love me."</p>
<p>Knowledge Skill: Negging</p>Workplace harassment is ok with Shelyn?!
"Oh come on, I need love. Why won't you love me? Shelyn wants you to love me."
Knowledge Skill: NeggingPhillip Gastone (alias of Andrea1)2018-09-24T00:58:57ZRe: Forums: Owlcat Pathfinder CRPGs: NPC Companions (spoilers)Vosshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs429p1?NPC-Companions#212018-09-23T19:02:53Z2018-09-23T19:02:53Z<p>Heh. I rather like a character that knows who they are and what they want. Valerie the paladin would be dull and one-note. Valerie as-is comes across a bit like a person, with goals, dislikes and likes.</p>Heh. I rather like a character that knows who they are and what they want. Valerie the paladin would be dull and one-note. Valerie as-is comes across a bit like a person, with goals, dislikes and likes.Voss2018-09-23T19:02:53ZRe: Forums: Owlcat Pathfinder CRPGs: NPC Companions (spoilers)Catharsishttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs429p1?NPC-Companions#202018-09-23T14:05:26Z2018-09-23T13:55:31Z<p>Ah, wasn't aware of that information. Yeah, that sounds all kinds of horrible. :\</p>Ah, wasn't aware of that information. Yeah, that sounds all kinds of horrible. :\Catharsis2018-09-23T13:55:31ZRe: Forums: Owlcat Pathfinder CRPGs: NPC Companions (spoilers)Vosshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs429p1?NPC-Companions#192018-09-23T13:35:57Z2018-09-23T13:35:57Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Catharsis wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Voss wrote:</div><blockquote>As far as anyone can tell, Valerie was never LG</blockquote>Would she even get accepted to Paladin training like that? </blockquote><p>Because that's what Daddy decided was best for her, and he was a noble.
</p>
So 'train my daughter and oh look a donation' is a simple thing.
<br />
She was apparently absurdly beautiful (which was another obvious checkbox) and good with the swords part. The rest of it she had no interest in.</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
That's one possible story to tell. She could also have been a devotee who got turned away from her calling by what essentially amounts to workplace harrassment, in which case finding her way «back» is a desirable goal.</blockquote><p>Nope. That came later.
</p>
https://pathfinderkingmaker.gamepedia.com/Valerie</p>
<p>She never cared about the frippery. She was good with swords, and that was really all she cared about.</p>
<p>From the way things sound, workplace harassment is OK by Shelyn anyway. But don't rip up bad poetry- that leads to divine revenge.</p>Catharsis wrote:Voss wrote:As far as anyone can tell, Valerie was never LG
Would she even get accepted to Paladin training like that? Because that's what Daddy decided was best for her, and he was a noble.
So 'train my daughter and oh look a donation' is a simple thing.
She was apparently absurdly beautiful (which was another obvious checkbox) and good with the swords part. The rest of it she had no interest in. Quote:That's one possible story to tell. She could also have been a devotee who...Voss2018-09-23T13:35:57ZRe: Forums: Owlcat Pathfinder CRPGs: NPC Companions (spoilers)Catharsishttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs429p1?NPC-Companions#182018-09-23T09:46:27Z2018-09-23T09:46:27Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Voss wrote:</div><blockquote>As far as anyone can tell, Valerie was never LG</blockquote><p>Would she even get accepted to Paladin training like that? I wonder whether the LG is a prerequisite, or a result of Paladin training. It's an objectively measurable property of people in Golarion, after all.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Voss wrote:</div><blockquote>She doesn't need to go 'back' to Shelyn (I'd argue she was never a devotee in any case</blockquote><p>That's one possible story to tell. She could also have been a devotee who got turned away from her calling by what essentially amounts to workplace harrassment, in which case finding her way «back» is a desirable goal.
<p>(Although I am generally a fan of Shelyn's, I have to admit her Paladin code is outrageously difficult to work with in actual play...)</p>Voss wrote:As far as anyone can tell, Valerie was never LG
Would she even get accepted to Paladin training like that? I wonder whether the LG is a prerequisite, or a result of Paladin training. It's an objectively measurable property of people in Golarion, after all. Voss wrote:She doesn't need to go 'back' to Shelyn (I'd argue she was never a devotee in any case
That's one possible story to tell. She could also have been a devotee who got turned away from her calling by what essentially...Catharsis2018-09-23T09:46:27ZRe: Forums: Owlcat Pathfinder CRPGs: NPC Companions (spoilers)Vosshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs429p1?NPC-Companions#172018-09-23T02:27:01Z2018-09-23T02:27:01Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Phillip Gastone wrote:</div><blockquote> Well FfG was a succubus who took a chastity oath any romance would be platonic.</blockquote><p>No, chastity means romance wouldn't necessarily involve sex. That isn't necessarily platonic.
<p>Both romances are pretty sexless, given how things go in game...</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote> As for lightning in a bottle, I mean the RPG/Visual Novel approach where your wisdom, intelligence and charisma were even more important than your combat skills.</blockquote><p>Except for all the combat- there is quite a lot of trash fights (and unavoidable plot encounters) that you _must_ win in that game. Checking mental stats for dialogue isn't even vaguely unique. Icewind Dale 1 did that (though often didn't tell you it was doing that), and many games before and after have done the same. That's pretty much the opposite of 'lightning in a bottle'
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote> Many of the micro managing aspects of RPGs such as healing and resting were done away with due to the MC's constant regenerating(No need to reload if you die, you will just get up in a bit) </blockquote><p>Both those things were still in game. Spells were still rest based, so you often had to do that (for your companions if you didn't bother taking mage levels), and healing was absolutely important for the rest of the party- they could quite easily be killed. And some encounters had to be face tanked, as you couldn't get around them by dying.Phillip Gastone wrote:Well FfG was a succubus who took a chastity oath any romance would be platonic.
No, chastity means romance wouldn't necessarily involve sex. That isn't necessarily platonic. Both romances are pretty sexless, given how things go in game...
Quote:As for lightning in a bottle, I mean the RPG/Visual Novel approach where your wisdom, intelligence and charisma were even more important than your combat skills.
Except for all the combat- there is quite a lot of trash fights...Voss2018-09-23T02:27:01ZRe: Forums: Owlcat Pathfinder CRPGs: NPC Companions (spoilers)Phillip Gastone (alias of Andrea1)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs429p1?NPC-Companions#162018-09-22T23:19:31Z2018-09-22T23:19:31Z<p>Well FfG was a succubus who took a chastity oath any romance would be platonic.
<br />
As for lightning in a bottle, I mean the RPG/Visual Novel approach where your wisdom, intelligence and charisma were even more important than your combat skills. Many of the micro managing aspects of RPGs such as healing and resting were done away with due to the MC's constant regenerating(No need to reload if you die, you will just get up in a bit)</p>Well FfG was a succubus who took a chastity oath any romance would be platonic.
As for lightning in a bottle, I mean the RPG/Visual Novel approach where your wisdom, intelligence and charisma were even more important than your combat skills. Many of the micro managing aspects of RPGs such as healing and resting were done away with due to the MC's constant regenerating(No need to reload if you die, you will just get up in a bit)Phillip Gastone (alias of Andrea1)2018-09-22T23:19:31ZRe: Forums: Owlcat Pathfinder CRPGs: NPC Companions (spoilers)Vosshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs429p1?NPC-Companions#152018-09-22T18:26:39Z2018-09-22T18:26:39Z<p>Torment had two (Annah and Fall from Grace)
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Bg2 had four.</p>
<p>They weren't particularly amazing in either case. But I'm not sure what you mean by 'lightning in s bottle game,' since torment was done with the same engine and roughly the same mechanics as four other games, it was wordier than bg2 and the IWD games were essentially significantly less wordy, linear dungeon crawls, but they were all part of the same system and same two studios.</p>Torment had two (Annah and Fall from Grace)
Bg2 had four.
They weren't particularly amazing in either case. But I'm not sure what you mean by 'lightning in s bottle game,' since torment was done with the same engine and roughly the same mechanics as four other games, it was wordier than bg2 and the IWD games were essentially significantly less wordy, linear dungeon crawls, but they were all part of the same system and same two studios.Voss2018-09-22T18:26:39ZRe: Forums: Owlcat Pathfinder CRPGs: NPC Companions (spoilers)Phillip Gastone (alias of Andrea1)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs429p1?NPC-Companions#142018-09-22T02:02:33Z2018-09-22T02:02:33Z<p>Romances, well that is a problem of all video games romances, shallowness. If one wants a rich and involved relationship...they will have to look to real life. ;)</p>
<p>Plus there is just so much time and effort to focus on these, Torment for example had one develop between the MC and another party member and it took huge amounts of text and I think it could only really be pulled off in a lightning in a bottle game like Torment</p>Romances, well that is a problem of all video games romances, shallowness. If one wants a rich and involved relationship...they will have to look to real life. ;)
Plus there is just so much time and effort to focus on these, Torment for example had one develop between the MC and another party member and it took huge amounts of text and I think it could only really be pulled off in a lightning in a bottle game like TormentPhillip Gastone (alias of Andrea1)2018-09-22T02:02:33ZRe: Forums: Owlcat Pathfinder CRPGs: NPC Companions (spoilers)Vosshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs429p1?NPC-Companions#132018-09-21T23:47:36Z2018-09-21T19:06:54Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Catharsis wrote:</div><blockquote> I meant Redemption in the sense of reinstating the G in LG so she can take Paladin levels (of whatever deity suits her best). Perhaps she could even find her way back to Shelyn in the wild beauty of the riverlands, far away from those fawning fanboys. </blockquote><p>Hmm. I view that more as a specific problem with the alignment system. Changing a character from LN to LG isn't reinstating anything- LN (or any other alignment) is just as valid as any other. As far as anyone can tell, Valerie was never LG- it would be a profound alteration of her character (or a meaningless letter change on the character sheet, depending on how you view alignment), not redemption or reinstatement.
<p>With something like this, reinstatement does imply she made a lesser choice, and to be better she needs to have the good tag... for reasons.</p>
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Then of course, we run into more of the problems of the 'monotheistic' pantheism that shows up in D&D games. She doesn't need to go 'back' to Shelyn (I'd argue she was never a devotee in any case, just got stuck being an orphan under the 'care' of Shelyn's followers, not that they seemed to take much interest in her needs or desires), and finding beauty in nature would take her to Gozreh anyway (assuming she randomly felt the need to attach a deity to a swamp). Shelyn seems to demand 'making stuff' and playing at 'catch and release for criminals because Shelyn and Z-K. Neither fits Valerie in any way at all. (though its possible my dislike for edicts/anathema of the playtest are bleeding through on that last bit)</p>Catharsis wrote:I meant Redemption in the sense of reinstating the G in LG so she can take Paladin levels (of whatever deity suits her best). Perhaps she could even find her way back to Shelyn in the wild beauty of the riverlands, far away from those fawning fanboys.
Hmm. I view that more as a specific problem with the alignment system. Changing a character from LN to LG isn't reinstating anything- LN (or any other alignment) is just as valid as any other. As far as anyone can tell, Valerie...Voss2018-09-21T19:06:54ZRe: Forums: Owlcat Pathfinder CRPGs: NPC Companions (spoilers)Catharsishttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs429p1?NPC-Companions#122018-09-21T09:12:28Z2018-09-21T09:12:28Z<p>I meant Redemption in the sense of reinstating the G in LG so she can take Paladin levels (of whatever deity suits her best). Perhaps she could even find her way back to Shelyn in the wild beauty of the riverlands, far away from those fawning fanboys.</p>I meant Redemption in the sense of reinstating the G in LG so she can take Paladin levels (of whatever deity suits her best). Perhaps she could even find her way back to Shelyn in the wild beauty of the riverlands, far away from those fawning fanboys.Catharsis2018-09-21T09:12:28ZRe: Forums: Owlcat Pathfinder CRPGs: NPC Companions (spoilers)Vosshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs429p1?NPC-Companions#112018-09-21T03:46:01Z2018-09-21T03:46:01Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>The decent Charisma score gives a chance at jumping out of that path, at least. The discussion of a Scaled Fist Monk/Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple/Eldritch Knight multiclass abomination on the Owlcat forums was very intriguing.</blockquote><p>That's honestly a really weird idea- I saw that discussion too, but between 13 dex and 15 charisma, it really isn't all that viable.
</p>
I get that its a way to diversify, but defensively it really struggles- in her prologue gear, she's got a 23 AC (when not fatigued). At that first level of monk, she'd drop to...14 AC</p>
<p>At 8th or 9th, she'd only be up around 18 AC (Assuming +1 from monk level 4, 2 from dex, 3 from Charisma, 2 natural armor from DD. Sure there are a couple feats and things you can add on, but that's true of an armored character as well.</p>
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On the Stalwart Defender front, it seems an odd prestige to include- a stationary effect in this game seems a really high cost, especially for someone designed as the frontliner. Movement in game looks deceptively slow, but a lot of creatures have ranged attacks, and others will try to engage other party members- a defender that can't move can't really help the party- in a lot of situations she would effectively nullify herself.</p>
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A set up I do think is viable is this: just going for Bard and DD.
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Either after fighter 5 (if you want to keep tower shields and attack effectively with them) or fighter 1 (when a 'tower shield specialist' isn't actually any different from a normal fighter. So F1/Bard 4/DD 4 (you can stop at 4 and just get +4 str and +2 natural armor, and only deal with 2 +0s to BAB)
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Has the advantage of a much better save spread, and long term not much loss of HP. AC is a lot worse, but it's easily in the same place as the multiclass abomination. (17 with non-magical chain-shirt and shield, and can cast, and the natural armor bonuses from DD stack. Or 18 AC with a stat point in dex at 4th)</p>
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Unfortunately, for multiclassing, Val just doesn't have many options:
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- Barbarian and Paladin are both out because alignment nonsense, </p>
<p>- alchemist, cleric, druid, magus, wizard and inquisitor are out because her mental stats are poor, (9 or 10), </p>
<p>-sorcerer conflicts with her armor (and even bard or eldritch scion is a definite armor downgrade). </p>
<p>-Ranger would want wisdom increases when she really needs more strength to avoid the really obvious encumbrance issues she faces.</p>
<p>Rogue isn't the worst thing (though trickery is out due to the huge penalties she can generate), but it, bard and eldritch scion are the only things close to remotely practical</p>
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I actually like the idea of giving her a few levels of Rogue(Thug): sickening and debilitating injury makes for a nice combo to make her targets significantly worse. It also opens up a couple more class skills, like UMD and perception. </p>
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I will say a redemption arc doesn't seem to fit at all. She isn't fallen or even a vaguely bad person. She just should have been given to a temple of Torag or Abadar. She would have done very well with a faith that fits her nature, rather than frippery.</p>Quote:The decent Charisma score gives a chance at jumping out of that path, at least. The discussion of a Scaled Fist Monk/Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple/Eldritch Knight multiclass abomination on the Owlcat forums was very intriguing.
That's honestly a really weird idea- I saw that discussion too, but between 13 dex and 15 charisma, it really isn't all that viable.
I get that its a way to diversify, but defensively it really struggles- in her prologue gear, she's got a 23 AC (when not fatigued)....Voss2018-09-21T03:46:01ZRe: Forums: Owlcat Pathfinder CRPGs: NPC Companions (spoilers)Thebazillyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs429p1?NPC-Companions#102018-09-20T19:44:26Z2018-09-20T19:44:26Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Voss wrote:</div><blockquote><p><b>Valerie</b>... has an odd build. I find tower shield specialist oddly limiting, and that one of her feats is burned on exotic weapon: bastard sword rather doubles down on it. She also has a mediocre strength (14), but a very high con (19) and a fairly high charisma (15). </p>
<p>And encumbrance is very much a thing in this game, so you're going to feel that low strength. The owlcat forums have lots of suggestions for multiclassing her up to including bard, eldritch scion magus, scaled fist monk, sorcerer and/or dragon disciple. She's LN, so paladin isn't an option (and also is a problem with her background)</p>
<p>On the other hand, she's the only real defensive front line character with easy access to high AC in the game, and her archetype and feat choices make me doubt the utility of dumping her in a light armor or no armor class. Also her dex isn't amazing.</blockquote><p>After catching up on some beta gameplay videos and doing some reading on the forums, I have to agree that Valerie's build is extremely odd. Any character that prioritizes Con above every other stat is going to turn out... rather mediocre. Her stats are kind of a mess.
<p>It's pretty obvious that she's built to Prestige into Stalwart Defender, since the class's key feature is based on Constitution, and she's doubling down on the tower shield. It really just locks her into the role of "high AC character," though, at the sacrifice of mobility, damage potential, and... you know... not being a Fighter. Unfortunately, Pathfinder doesn't reward high AC very well, and miss-chance buff spells (Mirror Image, Blur, etc.) are usually just as good, if not better at damage avoidance.</p>
<p>The decent Charisma score gives a chance at jumping out of that path, at least. The discussion of a Scaled Fist Monk/Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple/Eldritch Knight multiclass abomination on the Owlcat forums was very intriguing.</p>
<p>Of course, her stats would be pretty good for a Paladin, but that depends on there being a "redemption arc" in the story, which sounds unlikely from what we know so far.</p>Voss wrote:Valerie... has an odd build. I find tower shield specialist oddly limiting, and that one of her feats is burned on exotic weapon: bastard sword rather doubles down on it. She also has a mediocre strength (14), but a very high con (19) and a fairly high charisma (15).
And encumbrance is very much a thing in this game, so you're going to feel that low strength. The owlcat forums have lots of suggestions for multiclassing her up to including bard, eldritch scion magus, scaled fist...Thebazilly2018-09-20T19:44:26Z