Spell Attacks - Consider Changing

[Strachan Fireblade]

The concepts of Spell attacks and Spell rolls in PF2 creates a complex system that may or may not be necessary.

Depending upon the spell you cast, you need to use Spell attacks or Spell rolls.

Spell attacks make use of either your Str or Dex attribute when rolling to hit for many spells. Further, spell attacks (sometimes) tie in with Touch AC and this system helps to differentiate the types of armor in the game arguably giving each type of armor its own design space.

Spell rolls are sometimes used (see Black Tentacles) which make use of your key ability.

These mechanics for spellcasters have a lot of moving parts.

Contrary to this, other systems, have casters use their key ability for all spell attacks. It's a single unified mechanic regardless of spell. Some would argue that it makes martial classes and spellcasters too similar.

Each system has pros and cons and there is an argument for using either system.

I'm curious what players think about the route that PF2 has gone (spell attacks and spell rolls). Does the added complexity improve the game, or make it overly complex? I'm hoping this thread can serve as feedback to the devs.

[Sebastian Hirsch]

I personally like spell rolls as this can save a lot of time resolving spells like black tentacles etc.

[jozh]

I would prefer to use a spellcasting class's key ability score for all attacks or checks involved with their spells.

[DM_aka_Dudemeister]

+1 to all Spell Attacks being tied to Key ability modifier.

I know it's a bit of a power bump for spellcasters, but I think it's a good change for simplicity and considering how well spells have been reigned in, a worthwhile change.

[CharlieIAm]

+2 to Spell Rolls being used for attacks. It's not like Touch AC is the giveaway that it was in 1st edition, and simplicity is good.

[Jason S]

jozh wrote:

I would prefer to use a spellcasting class's key ability score for all attacks or checks involved with their spells.

This. To make it a level playing field, especially when every +-1 makes a difference and the expectation is optimization.

[glass]

That would be my preference as well.

Maybe give the option of using Str or Dex if it is higher for "weaponlike" spells, for more martially inclined characters (multiclassed types and the like).

_
glass.