Shield Boss or Spikes on Broken Shield

[Arutema]

Split from Class feedback on the paladin.

If a shield has the broken condition, can a shield boss or spikes attached to it still be sued to make attacks if the boss/spikes are not themselves broken?

[Ssalarn]

My understanding is yes, as long as the shield is not destroyed and the boss/spikes themselves are still usable (since they're treated as a separate but attached item with their own condition track), then you can continue to bash away. Though if the shield is destroyed, the boss/spikes will need to be picked up off the ground or otherwise recovered.

[Pramxnim]

P.182, under Attached: "If an item is destroyed, its attached weapon can usually be salvaged."

[Darkorin]

(Copied from a post I made at the same time and that I've since deleted):

Before talking about my interpretation, I will first quote the different rules necessary to debate the subject. (emphasis mine)

Item Damage (p175):

An item can be destroyed if it takes damage enough times. An item reduces any damage dealt to it by its Hardness.
The Hardness of various materials is explained in the Materials section on page 354. If an item takes damage equal to or exceeding the item’s Hardness, the item takes a Dent. If the item takes damage equal to or greater than twice its Hardness in one hit, it takes 2 Dents. For instance, a wooden shield (Hardness 3) that takes 10 damage would take 2 Dents. A typical item can take only 1 Dent without becoming broken. A second Dent causes it to become broken, though it can still be repaired. An item that would take a Dent or become broken while already broken is
destroyed beyond salvage. Some magical or especially sturdy items can take more than 1 Dent before becoming broken, as noted in their descriptions.

Attacking with a Shield (p177):

If you attack with a shield, treat it like an attack with an improvised weapon (see page 178). This deals the heavy shield bash damage or light shield bash damage (as appropriate to the shield’s type) listed on Table 6–5: Martial Melee Weapons on page 180.
If you want to reliably use your shield to attack, you need to buy and attach a shield boss or shield spikes to the shield. These work like other weapons, and can even be etched with runes (see page 370).

Attached (p182):

An attached weapon must be combined with another piece of gear in order to be used. The trait lists what type of item the weapon must be attached to. You must be wielding or wearing the item the weapon is attached to in order to attack with it. For example, shield spikes are attached to a shield, allowing you to attack with the spikes instead of a shield bash, but only if you’re wielding the shield. An attached weapon is usually bolted onto or built into the item it’s attached to, and typically an item can have only one weapon attached to it. An attached weapon can be removed from one item and attached to another with successful use of the Crafting skill. If an item is destroyed, its attached weapon can usually be salvaged.

Broken (p320):

Broken is a condition that affects objects. A broken object can’t be used for its normal function, nor does it grant bonuses. It still imposes the penalties and limitations normally incurred by carrying, holding, or wearing it. For example, a suit of armor would still impose its Dexterity
modifier cap, check penalty, and so forth.
Broken armor is an exception. It still grants its item bonuses, but also gives you a conditional penalty to AC depending on its category: –1 for broken light armor, –2 for broken medium armor, or –3 for broken heavy armor.

Now, the big question is: Can you use your Shield Spike or Shield Boss when your shield is Broken?

My interpretation is Yes!.

Why?

• A shield boss or Shield spike is a weapon in itself. As noted in the attached entry, they are a weapon within themselves, and they just need to attached to something in order to be used.
  
• Destroying a shield doesn't destroy the attachment. As specified in the attached entry, the attachment is normally not affected by an attack destroying a shield since it can be retrieved afterward.
  
• Broken condition prevents the item to be used normally. This means that a broken shield cannot be used to take shield actions or to shield bash, but when attacking with a shield attachment, you are not using the shield to attack, but the attachment itself!

My take is that the attached weapon only needs to be attached to the required items and doesn't care about it's current condition (broken or not, I do not consider destroyed as a condition since destroyed means that the item is no longer).

[Blave]

Being able to retrieve an attachment is probably meant to avoid losing your expensive +5 shield spikes just because you block a critical hit.

As I see it, Shield Spikes and Shield Boss are variants of a shield bash. You can't bash with a destroyed shield, so you can't use a Spikes/Boss attack with it either. Even if the attachment is undamaged, a broken shield is not stable enough to put any force behind it.

It's like trying to attack someon wtih an axe that has a broken (as in: heavily damaged), but still attached handle. The blade is probably gonna fly off on applying any significant force like a blow to an enemy.

At the very least, it should be an improvised weapon because you can no longer use it as it's meant to be used.