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Since bringing people back from the dead is fairly common in the Pathfinder universe I had a weird idea: I was thinking some churches might offer people "death insurance" i.e you pay a certain amount per month and in return if you die they will bring you back if it all possible. Seems like there would be a lot of demand for such a think actually
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This totally sounds like it should be a thing for the Church of Abadar . . . with hefty discounts for members, of course.
problem is that IIRC, resurrection magic (RD, Res, Tru Res or Reincarnation) require the corpse or a part thereof that was still with the body at the time of death, no way you can leave a lock of hair at the temple for them to use if they learn you died...
I think the best death insurance is a clone that wakes up should you die... with the limitation you ought to renew the sample used for it regularly, as it won't have any of your memories after the time the sample you were cloned from was taken.
^That's in the Platinum Plan . . . .
I think the best death insurance is a clone that wakes up should you die... with the limitation you ought to renew the sample used for it regularly, as it won't have any of your memories after the time the sample you were cloned from was taken.
If anyone's interested in the wider implications of this idea, the Eclipse Phase RPG and the Altered Carbon books/TV series explore them, albeit in sci-fi settings.
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I remember reading about someone who took this concept to the logical extreme: the PC's were employees of the insurance company tasked with recovering the bodies of policy-holders, thus leading the PC's into the dangerous environs that killed the other adventurers in the first place.
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I do like the players recovering policy holders idea and I think it absolutely makes sense that temples (particularly those of Abadar and Asmodeus) would offer insurance contracts for a wide range of things, not just injury, disease or death but also things like property, basically anything you could get insured in our modern society. I also think that all Temple healing (not necessarily clerical healing) always comes with strings attached in addition to an GP cost e.g. attend services, pray x number of times per day, provide labour to the temple/priests, engage in/cease engaging in certain behaviours, proselytise go on a quest etc. Failure to upholed your side of the bargain would have negative consequences ranging from loss of social standing, supernatural curses/penalties or revocation of the service provided (wounds reopen, disease returns etc. )
People don't do this already?
The biggest issue I see is conceiving of the organized concept of insurance in anything resembling a modern sense.... Having a purely professional relationship where you pay in advance for services you might not need as opposed to paying after the fact will be hard for people in the game world to understand and trust, I think.
Why? Insurance is one of the oldest methods to mitigate risks e.g. granaries to sore food in case of famine for example. The oldest known written insurance contract dates back to the 13th of February 1343; the medieval period ran from 5th to the 15th century so it's not unreasonable that a pseudo-medieval/post-medieval fantasy setting should have insurance contracts. Considering the existence of churches Asmodeus and Abadar in the Inner Sea it's actually quite strange that their aren't any rules for insurance as it would make perfect sense.
I think the best death insurance is a clone that wakes up should you die... with the limitation you ought to renew the sample used for it regularly, as it won't have any of your memories after the time the sample you were cloned from was taken.
If it doesn't have memories made after the time of it's creation, there's no way in the lower planes that it maintains continuity . . . but that might not be a thing that most people know to fret about.
Hm. For an interesting read on the subject of continuity, waitbutwhy has an article on the subject.
And on the idea of life insurance plans that pay out with your resurrection, waitbutwhy talks about that idea as well.
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I've always had an occasional NPC that had something like this. I think a great many DMs have.
As DM you have to be aware of disgruntling your Players by bringing back the villains they kill -- but certainly BBEG X may have paid someone to cast a True Res or Raise Dead on him. As long as you do it sparingly and give the clue.... When the PCs search the lair for treasure they find the True Res contract, or they find a lab where BBEG X made a Clone of himself. Then the PCs know and have the 'Ah man -- son of a bi+ch' moment. It's good as long as you use it sparingly and with a reason in mind (for this particular BBEG) -- and not be random or illogical.
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As for the local temple in town to offer this service to the Commoners and Experts and Aristocrats, well, I don't think there would be enough high-enough Level Divine casters to really provide that -- thinking of a flood or earthquake or goblin raid -- and I don't think that most Commoners or Experts or even Aristocrats could afford to pay the church enough to warrant an Open-Policy for Death Insurance. It seems like it would be driven by the NPC and handled case-by-case. So, a particular Aristocrat or Warrior would go to the local Temple and ask for something special. And the temple would negotiate with the NPC. But wouldn't advertise it.
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Also, keep in mind what happens in the game cosmology when an NPC Commoner (with a 7 CON, probably) dies. The soul goes to the appropriate Aligned Outer Plane (via Boneyard) and gets a whole new existence. So the Commoner and Expert and Aristocrat aren't exactly facing oblivion the way we are in real life. They have souls and an afterlife. As such, many (or some) will be less interested in death insurance the way we may be.
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Finally, going to the Temple of Sarenrae and asking for death insurance as a contingency may make the Clerics of Sarenrae not want to agree because you're essentially getting out of doing Sarenrae's work. When you die your soul goes to Sarenrae (or Iomedae, etc.) where it can start doing things like fight Devils and Demons in the Lower Planes, get Conjured to help out mortal PCs on the Prime Material, other Sarenrae stuff. Death Insurance means your cheating Sarenrae out of a few decades of work.
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Isn't wanting people to die so they can serve your god a little bit not-good? Also the divine spells to raise the dead cast by the cleric of Serenrae in this scenario are granted by Serenrae; if she didn't want people to be raised she wouldn't grant the spell/the spell would fail.
I think many churches regardless of alignment would typically harbour distrust of/opposition to witches raising the dead, providing healing and other services that would otherwise fall within the purview of divine temple magic. This is in part due to the mysterious nature of witchcraft but mostly because it stymies the influence of a church in a community.
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Isn't wanting people to die so they can serve your god a little bit not-good?
Interesting.
....I don't think so, after considering it. People die in earthquakes and floods and farm accidents -- it's part of life, death is. So not wanting to promote death insurance isn't necessarily evil.. . . .
Divine spells to raise the dead cast by the cleric of Sarenrae in this scenario are granted by Sarenrae; if she didn't want people to be raised she wouldn't grant the spell/the spell.
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What a great point.
....I think it may be the best reason against wholesale Death Insurance. You can pay your premiums but there's no guarantee that when you die Sarenrae will allow you to be Raised. If Sarenrae has plans for your soul right away the god may let let you back regardless of your payments to the church.
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From what I understand, Sarenrae doesn't have any say in the matter, that is all up to Pharasma. And it seems, that she makes her decision based upon either the desires of the mortal or the fate of the mortal (or both as they may be quite connected.)
I think the real problem with death insurance in the game is that insurance is a fairly complicated financial transaction and Pathfinder economics are not sophisticated at all.
A viable insurance rate would on average cost more than the benefits it provides. Some benefit, but if the average person benefits then the program is going to go broke. Making this work in pathfinder, especially in relation to PCs who are going to have to be considered 'high risk' would be difficult.
Isn't wanting people to die so they can serve your god a little bit not-good?Interesting.
....I don't think so, after considering it. People die in earthquakes and floods and farm accidents -- it's part of life, death is. So not wanting to promote death insurance isn't necessarily evil.
{. . .}
Keep in mind that in the Pathfinder Campaign Setting, some deities actually are Good, and can and should be against people dying in such ways, although most likely they have to keep this under cover to avoid retaliation by the alliance that would form of the Evil deities and Pharasma (and likely some of the other deities that are Neutral with respect to Good and Evil).
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Lets not forget that Raise Dead costs Paladins virtually nothing after a while. With Ultimate Mercy, a paladin could take a negative level or cough up 5000 gp. This could be the same Paladin who makes first level scrolls of Lesser Restoration. The problem is keeping up with demand as he could pretty much pull of a res once a day. Imagine how much the insurance will cost for the death prone.
Insurance is one of the oldest methods to mitigate risks e.g. granaries to sore food in case of famine for example.
The idea of insurance is not to mitigate risk, but too spread out expenses over time so that they can be made into a budget line item. The paperwork needed to track things actually adds a little cost, but because you have a fixed amount to pay every month, your budget is easier to maintain than if you occasionally had a spike in costs due to an uninsured event.
One problem with insuring adventurers is the extreme likelihood of payout. Therefore, the cost per month will be very high compared to a farmer.
If the adventurer can get insurance, they why worry about being killed? Your insurance will pay for it, and you can continue the next day and maybe die again.
What's the rate for the Tomb of Horrors?
/cevah
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Something about an Abadaran actuary doing CR math and calculating your odds of dying for your insurance costs just cracks me up.
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^And they'd be the ones most likely to do it, too . . . .
Something about an Abadaran actuary doing CR math and calculating your odds of dying for your insurance costs just cracks me up.
What happens if church renigs on the rez what you going to do. Sue, sue, sue.
that guy sitting there counting his toes cracks me up too.
What happens if church renigs on the rez what you going to do. Sue, sue, sue.
that guy sitting there counting his toes cracks me up too.
They have to make their money somehow right? Dead men can't collect their payment or this case, their rez.
Well I'm not accepting insurance from Urgathoa... Hence the church of Abadar.
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Come to think of, it would be rather profitable. Adventurers don't normally go too over their head. Like some mysterious entity gives them challenges that are juuuuuust right.
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^Must be that the Church of Abadar has secret back channels to said entity . . . probably giving kickbacks . . . .
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What happens if church renigs on the rez what you going to do.
I would just like to point out that my ghost will be both angry and vengeful, and will retain all of my spell casting powers.