Elves & Drow


Ancestries & Backgrounds


One of our major PCs is a drow (the drow in our game world are not CE, but rather LN). We would request that the elf ancestry have options that allow for a drow build.


I'm sure Drow will turn up as an ancestry heritage feat eventually. Possibly even in the DMG at launch.


Trixie99 wrote:
One of our major PCs is a drow (the drow in our game world are not CE, but rather LN). We would request that the elf ancestry have options that allow for a drow build.

YES! If goblin can be a race now, I would love to see Drows.


YES! If goblin can be a race now, I would love to see Drows.

My point exactly!


Gosh I really hope Drow don't get turned into a heritage feat.
That's already a terrible shame for half-elves and half-orcs, we don't need actual unique races getting flung into that mess.
We need the races to feel more like themselves again, not turn more races into feats that take entirely too long to get going anywhere iconic.


Sydney S. wrote:

Gosh I really hope Drow don't get turned into a heritage feat.

That's already a terrible shame for half-elves and half-orcs, we don't need actual unique races getting flung into that mess.
We need the races to feel more like themselves again, not turn more races into feats that take entirely too long to get going anywhere iconic.

If the half elf/orc feats did something as tangible as the other species options, maybe it wouldn't be so bad.

As is, yeah. I want species to feel unique.

Dark Archive

Probably not for the playtest, but it'll absolutely happen within a few books. As is, just sub Int for Cha and low-light for darkvision and call it a day.


Drow are an Ethnicity, they shouldn't need a seperate Ancestry if human ethnicities don't deserve the same treatment.

They might write a Drow Heritage feat to upgrade Low-Light Vision to Darkvision, grant an occult cantrip, and access to all the 'uncommon-to-non-drow-junk'. Same goes for all the other 'deep-folk'.

Sans that option though, an Ethnicity entry could just as easily note minor changes to the Ancestry's initial benefits. Such as replacing the Int Boost with a Cha Boost, and gaining Darkvision and Light Sensitivity instead of Low-Light Vision.


I would be interested in seeing how 2.0 would develop the drow.

Dark Archive

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Cantriped wrote:

Drow are an Ethnicity, they shouldn't need a seperate Ancestry if human ethnicities don't deserve the same treatment.

They might write a Drow Heritage feat to upgrade Low-Light Vision to Darkvision, grant an occult cantrip, and access to all the 'uncommon-to-non-drow-junk'. Same goes for all the other 'deep-folk'.

Sans that option though, an Ethnicity entry could just as easily note minor changes to the Ancestry's initial benefits. Such as replacing the Int Boost with a Cha Boost, and gaining Darkvision and Light Sensitivity instead of Low-Light Vision.

Sure.

Drow (Heritage, Feat 1)
Your dark blue skin and white hair identify you as a citizen of the darklands. You have elven features, but most elves would never accept your kind in their society. Instead of a boost to intelligence, your gain a boost to charisma. You gain darkvision as a dwarf or goblin adventurer, and you are able to take Drow ancestry feats in addition to Elven ancestry feats whenever you gain an ancestry feat.

Darklands Magic (Feat 1)
Choose one cantrip from the occult spell list. You can cast this spell as an innate occult spell at will. The cantrip is heightened to a spell level equal to half your level rounded up.

Drow Noble (Feat 5)
Prerequisites: Darklands Magic
Your power is tied to the darklands, and manifests at your will. You can cast 2nd-level darkness as an innate occult spell once per day.
Special You can take this feat again to instead cast 4th-level darkness as an innate occult spell once per day.

Darksight (Feat 5)
Your ties to darkness have improved your eyesight. You gain greater darkvision, allowing you to see through even 4th-level darkness without penalty.


I like that list, but I suggest that Drow Heritage should include a second 'minor' benefit, such as becoming Trained in Deception, or granting either Read Lips or Sign Language as a bonus Skill Feat.

Dark Archive

Darkvision is a pretty good bonus in and of itself. I was erring on the side of underpowered. What about "gain access to Drow Sign language"?


I know I can house rule it, but for the sake of the playtest, I am eschewing house rules.

Scarab Sages

Trixie99 wrote:
One of our major PCs is a drow (the drow in our game world are not CE, but rather LN). We would request that the elf ancestry have options that allow for a drow build.

Or at least have the elf ancestries have some feats to be a drow built, like have darkvision instead of low light vision, etc.


Mergy wrote:
Darkvision is a pretty good bonus in and of itself. I was erring on the side of underpowered. What about "gain access to Drow Sign language"?

Darkvision is totally feat worthy if you're a Human (see Half-Orc for example). However, Elves already have Low-Light Vision, stepping up to darkvision from there is worth closer to one-half or one-third of a feat.

As a side note, I don't rate "access to an additional list" as more than a flavor benefit by itself. Power creep (in both first and third party supplements) will inevitibly homogenize the ancestry feats even more than they already are.
In lieu of an official mechanic I'll treat drow as an ethnicity and make the appropriate adjustments (outside of playtest environment of course).

Dark Archive

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Honestly, I would consider creating new ancestries and backgrounds as a small part of the playtest. I made some drow ancestry feats in about five minutes; they're not perfect, but they're certainly playable. If we can do that with this system, then I'm pretty happy.


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Drow shouldn't be an Elf variant in some cases, as their culture is totally separate from theirs. For example Drow have their own Weapon Familiarity and shouldn't have access to the elven one. Then there's also light blindness and all those SLA they get. I think they're different enough to be unique and have lots of feat choices.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Bring back free dual-wielding of all one-handed weapons for drow!


Cantriped wrote:
Mergy wrote:
Darkvision is a pretty good bonus in and of itself. I was erring on the side of underpowered. What about "gain access to Drow Sign language"?

Darkvision is totally feat worthy if you're a Human (see Half-Orc for example). However, Elves already have Low-Light Vision, stepping up to darkvision from there is worth closer to one-half or one-third of a feat.

As a side note, I don't rate "access to an additional list" as more than a flavor benefit by itself. Power creep (in both first and third party supplements) will inevitibly homogenize the ancestry feats even more than they already are.
In lieu of an official mechanic I'll treat drow as an ethnicity and make the appropriate adjustments (outside of playtest environment of course).

Going up from lowlight to darkvision is considered a full feat by paizo judging that the half orc have exactly that, a feat to turn low to dark.

Access to a list is also feat worthy. Adopted does LESS (doesn't give access to physiological feats) than that and it's a general feat.

Dark Archive

ChibiNyan wrote:
Drow shouldn't be an Elf variant in some cases, as their culture is totally separate from theirs. For example Drow have their own Weapon Familiarity and shouldn't have access to the elven one. Then there's also light blindness and all those SLA they get. I think they're different enough to be unique and have lots of feat choices.

Their weapon familiarity is pretty awful. It's hand crossbow instead of longbow/shortbow and short sword instead of longsword.

I represented their SLAs with Darklands Magic for a cantrip and Drow Noble for darkness. As for light blindness... I guess? Sure, throw it into the base one if you really want. Dazzled is really bad in PF2 though, so it's not going to be as much fun for the player.


shroudb wrote:
Cantriped wrote:
Mergy wrote:
Darkvision is a pretty good bonus in and of itself. I was erring on the side of underpowered. What about "gain access to Drow Sign language"?

Darkvision is totally feat worthy if you're a Human (see Half-Orc for example). However, Elves already have Low-Light Vision, stepping up to darkvision from there is worth closer to one-half or one-third of a feat.

As a side note, I don't rate "access to an additional list" as more than a flavor benefit by itself. Power creep (in both first and third party supplements) will inevitibly homogenize the ancestry feats even more than they already are.
In lieu of an official mechanic I'll treat drow as an ethnicity and make the appropriate adjustments (outside of playtest environment of course).

Going up from lowlight to darkvision is considered a full feat by paizo judging that the half orc have exactly that, a feat to turn low to dark.

Access to a list is also feat worthy. Adopted does LESS (doesn't give access to physiological feats) than that and it's a general feat.

Huh, so it does, I'd misremembered how half-orcs progress as I have zero personal interest in them. Seems like a raw deal when you could have just played a dwarf and kept that feat and a half for something interesting.

Regarding Adopted, no it really isn't General Feat worthy either. Not now, and certainly not after a few years worth of monthly publications homoginize all the lists even more than they already started. Further, until Paizo adds 'genetic' and 'cultural' tags to ancestry feats the clause in Adopted is pretty meaningless (or rather subject to severe table variation). Adopted By Humans arguably grants the entire list for example, same goes for the other lists with obvious exceptions. Not that any of the lists really have anything worth being taxed a general feat for... except maybe the ability to convert your remaining ancestry feats into general feats through General Training after you've taken the one or two options you actually wanted.

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