So now monks have only Dex +1 for AC slowly progressing to DEX +3 this just kill the STR monks cuz without enough dex you always will be hit.
Monk Should have Wis in they AC again
Well, for one thing it's "Level+Dex+1" progressing to "Level + Dex +3" and bracers of armor are legitimately good options now (and affordable as early as level 2), which do a lot to help monk defense.
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So now monks have only Dex +1 for AC slowly progressing to DEX +3 this just kill the STR monks cuz without enough dex you always will be hit.
Monk Should have Wis in they AC again
If you add WIS + DEX to AC, what you are doing is making DEX Monks better.
I propose a different thing here, namely, a class feat that allows you to REPLACE DEX for INT/CHA/WIS to AC (and not add it), and then you get a minor bonus on top of it to make it less of a feat tax.
I propose a different thing here, namely, a class feat that allows you to REPLACE DEX for INT/CHA/WIS to AC (and not add it), and then you get a minor bonus on top of it to make it less of a feat tax.
If such a thing happens, the monk key ability should change from "your choice of str or dex" to "your choice of anything but Con."
I propose a different thing here, namely, a class feat that allows you to REPLACE DEX for INT/CHA/WIS to AC (and not add it), and then you get a minor bonus on top of it to make it less of a feat tax.If such a thing happens, the monk key ability should change from "your choice of str or dex" to "your choice of anything but Con."
Sticking with an attacking stat would make the class less appealing as an MC caster, but yeah.
What proficiency do other classes have in Unarmored Defense?
As far as I can tell, untrained, which makes monks actually 3 points better.
But still typically worse than someone trained in armor and wearing it.
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This is one of my biggest issues right now. They completely nerfed Monk AC and Monk AC wasn't great to begin with. Before Monk's could have passable AC without investing in items. In this playtest, Monk is wholly dependent on acquiring a specific magic item to not be completely outclassed by a fighter with basic mundane armor.
Monks will be able to, with Max Dex, will have the same AC as a Fighter. But all the Monk's AC is TAC, while the Fighter will have much lower TAC.
This is because Monks have 6 (DEX) + 4 (legendary) AC, and Fighters have 5 (splint armour) + 2 (DEX + 3 (máster) AC. Note the 5 difference.
If you add Magic items, a +2 DEX item gets the Monk one point higher than a Fighter.
So I'm not sure where you are coming from.
Wouldn't it make sense to just get a cantrip as a Monk (Humans can get any cantrip). Then choose shield spell.
That adds +1 AC (just don't use shield block mechanic much).
I'll admit to being wrong somewhat about end results here. There are still two small issues here though. First, the AC of people who wear armor is slightly more front-loaded than the Monk and the Monk is completely Dex dependent which severely limits build versatility. Second, it's easier and much cheaper to acquire magic armor than bracers of armor. The person who wears armor can also choose what type of armor to wear while the Monk only has a single choice in the bracers of armor. Only compensation is the bracers can go to +6 where magic armor is limited to a +5 bonus. Saving grace, it doesn't look like you can add defensive potency runes to a shield to double dip on magic armor bonuses, which keeps the AC difference minimized.
Sorry, still getting used to the modifiers, keep thinking they are 1 higher than they should be :P
1. On Monk AC being less front-loaded, that's fine, considering it has much higher TAC and it's free. FIghters need to pay for armor and have less TAC, Monks shouldn't be the best at everything all the time.
2. On build versatility... I made a comment specifically about that! Did you check it out? I know you say letting Monks replace DEX with INT/WIS/CHA feels like a feat tax, but it doesn't have to be if you include a minor rider. Then, it feels like something enabling you to keep better skill checks and thematics without endangering build integrity, plus you get a minor bonus down the line. So there are suggestions to fix it.
3. Bracers of Armor is EQUALLY easy to acquire than Heavy Armor. If you see the treasure list, both +1 heavy armor and +2 bracers of armor are listed as equal level treasure (4th level). They are worth roughly the same amount of gold too (100gp vs 95gp, so bracers are even cheaper). If anything, Bracers of Armor are easier to obtain than heavy armor – magic armor +3 is 11th level treasure, while Bracers of Armor +4 is 8th level...?
4. I'll grant you it seems sucky you can't socket Bracers of Armor to have more unique effects, or that there isn't more than one option there. But that's totally different than what you seem to be complaining about.
2. On build versatility... I made a comment specifically about that! Did you check it out? I know you say letting Monks replace DEX with INT/WIS/CHA feels like a feat tax, but it doesn't have to be if you include a minor rider. Then, it feels like something enabling you to keep better skill checks and thematics without endangering build integrity, plus you get a minor bonus down the line. So there are suggestions to fix it.3. Bracers of Armor is EQUALLY easy to acquire than Heavy Armor. If you see the treasure list, both +1 heavy armor and +2 bracers of armor are listed as equal level treasure (4th level). They are worth roughly the same amount of gold too (100gp vs 95gp, so bracers are even cheaper). If anything, Bracers of Armor are easier to obtain than heavy armor – magic armor +3 is 11th level treasure, while Bracers of Armor +4 is 8th level...?
2) That was someone else. I didn't say the idea was introducing a feat tax. Although, it doesn't address the Monk's issue of being dependent solely on an an ability for defense. It just shifts which ability the Monk is dependent on. Plus, adding a rider actually give the Int/Wis/CHa Monk an advantage over the Dex Monk. Unless you also add a feat with a similar rider for Dex Monk but then Dex Monk is spending a feat to get just a rider while the Int/Wis/Cha Monk is getting added versatility plus the rider. Maybe the feat doesn't replace Dex as the AC stat but simply adds the ability to use whichever stat has the higher bonus and adds a small rider. So if one of the two ability scores is hampered in some way temporarily, the Monk can shift to using the other.
3) At later levels bracer of armor become much more expensive. Around 20k gold at each items respective max. I'll admit I haven't checked the cost of higher quality armor to see how much that offsets the difference.
2. The rider I proposed in my thread is minor – good enough for a class feat, but not good enough for a DEX Monk to feel left out. Note that ability score hampering is different in this edition.
3. This is true, +5 armor is 40k and +6 bracers are 65k. Odd.
This is one of my biggest issues right now. They completely nerfed Monk AC and Monk AC wasn't great to begin with. Before Monk's could have passable AC without investing in items. In this playtest, Monk is wholly dependent on acquiring a specific magic item to not be completely outclassed by a fighter with basic mundane armor.Monks will be able to, with Max Dex, will have the same AC as a Fighter. But all the Monk's AC is TAC, while the Fighter will have much lower TAC.
This is because Monks have 6 (DEX) + 4 (legendary) AC, and Fighters have 5 (splint armour) + 2 (DEX + 3 (máster) AC. Note the 5 difference.
If you add Magic items, a +2 DEX item gets the Monk one point higher than a Fighter.
So I'm not sure where you are coming from.
OK. Let me look at the real math. For starters, it's +3 for legendary and +2 for master. Same point difference between the examples but different totals for them.
Monk: 6 Dex + 3 (legendary) AC. That's a max of 9 without magic items but it does all apply to TAC
Fighter: 7 (Dex + armor) + 2 (master) AC. At first glance I admit that's not as bad a difference as I thought. The fighter can add a shield which brings them to 11 vs the monk's 9.
Monk could also take Monastic Weps and Use a Bo Staff for the Parry Trait to get 10, or Crane Stance to get to 10, or both to have an AC of 11.
It'd be situational on readying the bo/being in the correct stance but possible.
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Having played a monk, the AC is a serious issue at low levels at least. I was crit far more times than anyone else in the party which resulted in me spending most of the session lying on the floor rolling to wake up.
Yep, the way I see it, you'll likely be at 15 + level AC at creation if you max DEX (4 mod + 1 expert), which is 1 behind on Rogues at 16 + level AC (4 mod + 2 armor).
You only match Rogues with Bracers of Armor, and then you need Crane Style to push past them or wait until 13th level.
High level math works out well, but early on when Fighters are rocking 18 + level AC (5 armor + 2 DEX mod + 1 expert), it feels like the Monk is way too down on the ranking...
Not to mention STR Monks.
I just had an idea to fix my Monk AC issue. Expand Graceful Expertise. At 1st level in addition to raising unarmored defense to expert it lets you combine you Dex and Wisdom modifiers to a max of +5. At 13th, in addition to increasing the rank to master, it also allows you to combine your Wisdom and Dexterity modifiers for AC to a max of +6. At 17th when it becomes Graceful Legend, in addition to improving the rank to legendary it also improves the other bonus to allow Wisdom and Dex to combine for your AC up to +7. It makes the Monk less dependent on a single stat for defense allowing them to spread their ability boosts more making a wider array of builds viable. It puts them on par with armor wearing melee classes but does so over time.
I'm not too hot about this because I'd rather have INT/CHA/WIS Monk options baseline in one part, in other part because I don't like how it feels too similar to armor.
I'd rather have AC mod flexibility (DEX/WIS/INT/CHA), and some baseline defensive utility.