Succubus kiss

[doomman47]

Does a succubus kiss count as a natural attack?

[Adjoint]

No more than a kiss from a human. That is, no.

Just because a succubuss can use a supernatural ability on a kiss, it's not making it a natural attack.

[doomman47]

Dang ok, was hoping it would because dread vampire give any single natural attack an additional 2 negative levels so I was hoping it would since it would be a very thematic improvement to the ability instead of having the drain effect being on a slam or a claw attack.

[Adjoint]

As a GM you can always alter monsters so that they'd fit your plans better - you're not limited to published templates. Especially that a kiss is only given as an example of "an act of passion" required for a succubus to activate its ability. You can always declare that your vampire succubus bites when she gets passionate and follow from that.

[RealAlchemy]

Can a monk succubus do a flurry of kisses and drain at amazing speed?

[Adjoint]

RealAlchemy wrote:

Can a monk succubus do a flurry of kisses and drain at amazing speed?

I'm sending this question to the "Succubus in a grapple" thread.

[Cavall]

Succubus are chaotic. Monks must be lawful. Seems a moot question.

[RealAlchemy]

Cavall wrote:

Succubus are chaotic. Monks must be lawful. Seems a moot question.

Martial artist AT monk doesn't :)

[Adjoint]

RealAlchemy wrote:

Cavall wrote:

Succubus are chaotic. Monks must be lawful. Seems a moot question.

Martial artist AT monk doesn't :)

Or brawler.

[doomman47]

Or just do away with stupid stereo types and either have a lawful succubus or remove the lawful requirement of monk.

[deuxhero]

Succubus are literally made of chaos (hence the subtypes starting with "Chaotic"). Monks always being lawful is still dumb though.

As for the original question, putting aside how Dread Vampire is third party... Draining blood is an act of passion in loads of vampire fiction, so it would work except I'm not sure if Energy Drain is a rider rather than a used ability. I'd go with it though.

[Cavall]

doomman47 wrote:

Or just do away with stupid stereo types and either have a lawful succubus or remove the lawful requirement of monk.

This is the rules forum, so no, thank you. One must be chaotic the other must be lawful by the rules (archetypes aside of course).

What you're suggesting is more for the homebrew section.

[doomman47]

Cavall wrote:

doomman47 wrote:

Or just do away with stupid stereo types and either have a lawful succubus or remove the lawful requirement of monk.

This is the rules forum, so no, thank you. One must be chaotic the other must be lawful by the rules (archetypes aside of course).

What you're suggesting is more for the homebrew section.

It's the rules forum for what my original question was, the question was about weather or not the kiss was a natural weapon I wasn't asking if I could make a non lawful monk, besides there are in raw examples of non chaotic demons, there is a redeemed succubus paladin npc in an adventure path, so by raw it is possible.

[doomman47]

deuxhero wrote:

Succubus are literally made of chaos (hence the subtypes starting with "Chaotic"). Monks always being lawful is still dumb though.

Creatures with aligned subtypes don't have to have that alignment(see redeemed paladin LG succubus example above they were lawful good but still had the chaotic and evil subtypes)

deuxhero wrote:

As for the original question, putting aside how Dread Vampire is third party... Draining blood is an act of passion in loads of vampire fiction, so it would work except I'm not sure if Energy Drain is a rider rather than a used ability. I'd go with it though.

dread vampire energy drain:

Special Attacks: The dread vampire gains energy drain (2 levels) on any single natural attack type the base creature possesses. Saves DCs are Charisma-based unless otherwise specified.

They pick a natural attack they possess and when they attack another creature with it they also take 2 negative levels. So it happens when you do another thing and is not a use x ability to drain 2 levels. So if it was a monk and they chose unarmed strike then with ki and haste up they could potentially do 18 negative levels in one round which is scary if the people fighting them are not prepared for it.