Unarmored proficiency for monks only?


Skills, Feats, Equipment & Spells

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I saw unarmored proficiency as a system concept and was immediately thrilled to recreate my unarmored swashbuckler from PF1 as a rogue, or possibly build a variant of Ostog from the card game.

Except a search of the PDF turned up no way to gain this proficiency except through monk class features. Am I reading this right?


It feels like armor/weapon proficiency increasers are missing. I thought a Fighter could boost his armor proficiency from Master to Legendary, but I can't see how.


Arutema wrote:

I saw unarmored proficiency as a system concept and was immediately thrilled to recreate my unarmored swashbuckler from PF1 as a rogue, or possibly build a variant of Ostog from the card game.

Except a search of the PDF turned up no way to gain this proficiency except through monk class features. Am I reading this right?

Expert+ armor proficiencies are exceedingly rare, apparently. Only Paladins, Fighters and Monks get them.

Rogues, Rangers, etc. don't get any.

I assume Monk Multiclass will allow characters to pick up Unarmored Proficiency though.

THAT BEING SAID, why not go Monk MC Rogue to be a Swashbuckler? Just reskin Temple Swords to be an arming swords of some sort.

Xenocrat wrote:
It feels like armor/weapon proficiency increasers are missing. I thought a Fighter could boost his armor proficiency from Master to Legendary, but I can't see how.

Maybe a missing 20th level Feat?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Secret Wizard wrote:
Arutema wrote:

I saw unarmored proficiency as a system concept and was immediately thrilled to recreate my unarmored swashbuckler from PF1 as a rogue, or possibly build a variant of Ostog from the card game.

Except a search of the PDF turned up no way to gain this proficiency except through monk class features. Am I reading this right?

Expert+ armor proficiencies are exceedingly rare, apparently. Only Paladins, Fighters and Monks get them.

Rogues, Rangers, etc. don't get any.

I assume Monk Multiclass will allow characters to pick up Unarmored Proficiency though.

THAT BEING SAID, why not go Monk MC Rogue to be a Swashbuckler? Just reskin Temple Swords to be an arming swords of some sort.

Xenocrat wrote:
It feels like armor/weapon proficiency increasers are missing. I thought a Fighter could boost his armor proficiency from Master to Legendary, but I can't see how.
Maybe a missing 20th level Feat?

Monk MC rogue doesn't grant Finesse Striker. and of course, MC monk is outright missing from the playtest. So that's my swashbuckler out.

Monk MC fighter might work for an Ostog style character, but he'd be missing rage.

So I must agree with Xeoncrat that it feels like we're missing the feats to gain and improve certain proficiencies.


What do you need Finesse Striker for? Just put some points into STR, you won't be missing much.


Are the other classes at least trained in Unarmored? I didn't find it and I was wondering if the wizard take a -2 to def for Untrained while having no armor what prevent him from wearing an actual armor.


Bugromkiller wrote:
Are the other classes at least trained in Unarmored? I didn't find it and I was wondering if the wizard take a -2 to def for Untrained while having no armor what prevent him from wearing an actual armor.

Everyone is Trained in Unarmored and Unarmed Strikes.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Secret Wizard wrote:
What do you need Finesse Striker for? Just put some points into STR, you won't be missing much.

Because it is a deliberate attempt to recreate a high dex, high cha, low str PF1 character.

EDIT: I stand corrected.


Arutema wrote:
Secret Wizard wrote:
What do you need Finesse Striker for? Just put some points into STR, you won't be missing much.

Because it is a deliberate attempt to recreate a high dex, high cha, low str PF1 character.

EDIT: I stand corrected.

"Low STR" means something different in PF2 – it means staying around at 14ish STR.

Try it out! I think Monk MC Rogue with a Finesse weapon could work pretty great – as a matter of fact, it's what I'll be playing on my Playtest campaign! Will be using a Sai, wish there were more Finesse options but oh well.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Secret Wizard wrote:
Bugromkiller wrote:
Are the other classes at least trained in Unarmored? I didn't find it and I was wondering if the wizard take a -2 to def for Untrained while having no armor what prevent him from wearing an actual armor.
Everyone is Trained in Unarmored and Unarmed Strikes.

Where is that stated?

Either it needs to be stated somewhere, or (if it is stated somewhere) that place needs to be a bit more obvious.

Although I would admit that it would be a bit absurd for any characters to be untrained in unarmored defense.


It's in the Weapon/Armor sections.


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Unarmed is listed as a simple weapon so if you're trained in simple weapons you're trained in unarmed. There doesn't appear to be any mention of unarmored defense being trained for anyone except monks and animal companions.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Training in Unarmored proficiency is specifically not talked about in the armor section. It says you add your proficency bonus to your unarmored AC and TAC, but no where does it list that characters are assumed trained in Unarmored Proficiency.

EDIT: Which means that only the monk takes a penalty for wearing armor they are not proficient in.


Unicore wrote:

Training in Unarmored proficiency is specifically not talked about in the armor section. It says you add your proficency bonus to your unarmored AC and TAC, but no where does it list that characters are assumed trained in Unarmored Proficiency.

EDIT: Which means that only the monk takes a penalty for wearing armor they are not proficient in.

It seems to mean that sorcerers and wizards take that -2 penalty no matter what they wear as well.

I know that there was a previewed wizard character (EN world) who had an AC that indicated he was trained in unarmored defense but I still have not found that proficiency listed anywhere. Maybe it's a mistake leaving it out or a design change from early on when those preview character sheets were made up.


Everyone is trained in Unarmored Defense.

It seems to be an editing error that it wasn't clearer.


Until there is an official comment RAW is that everyone is untrained though.


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Yep, the class section on proficiencies is clear- if it isn't stated in the class entry, it is untrained. (p43)
Also, page 9: unless class or another choice gives you a different rank, you're untrained.

The armor section is simply explaining how to calculate your AC, even if you aren't wearing armor. (Add item bonuses to level and then proficiency modifier) That it's calling out unarmored proficiency as part of explanation still isn't telling you what a character's proficiency *is*.

It's even left out of the helpful chart on page 291, which tells you all the things you have proficiency ranks in.

---
The pregen for Ezran makes it likely that unarmored is trained for everyone, but that's an assumption not in the rulebook.

It isn't a matter of 'clearer,' it simply isn't in the book. Except for monks and animal companions.


Wait, AC = 10 + Dex Mod + (level + (-2,0,1,2,3) proficiency)?

Sounds like only monks can be trained in unarmored and their AC defaults to 10 + Dex + 1 at 1st level.


Joe Mucchiello wrote:

Wait, AC = 10 + Dex Mod + (level + (-2,0,1,2,3) proficiency)?

Sounds like only monks can be trained in unarmored and their AC defaults to 10 + Dex + 1 at 1st level.

10+ Dex mod + prof + item bonus, but yes.

Monks are expert (not trained) in unarmored defense so are 10+Dex +1 (level) +1 (prof) at level 1.
So 12+ Dex mod.

Silver Crusade

Secret Wizard wrote:

Everyone is trained in Unarmored Defense.

It seems to be an editing error that it wasn't clearer.

I think they are aware of it and will clarify it soon, but a lot of those guys are at Gencon.


The character sheet has nowhere to note what your unarmored proficiency level is. Presumably, anyone can become Expert or Master in such a proficiency.


Joe Mucchiello wrote:
The character sheet has nowhere to note what your unarmored proficiency level is. Presumably, anyone can become Expert or Master in such a proficiency.

I would have thought that as well but that's not what the rulebook says. Even if they errata everyone to be trained in unarmored defense than there is still no way for non monks to improve their proficiency level

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