In the title! I'm hopeful that martial classes will get basic access to all maneuvers, with options to specialize. Sort of like all martials would (eventually) get Improved X, with the option to take Greater X as class feats.
Monk would come out first, of course, but maneuvers are a fun area that let martials have battlefield flexibility. Plus, they're fun!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I think the base was that maneuvers are based on Athletics and (not sure) Acrobatics IIRC and resisted by fortitude or reflex
that was all I know - I would guess feats help to specialize, not sure if skill feats, class feats or whatever
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Maneuvers are a Skill check (usually with Athletics, though some seem to be Acrobatics or other stuff). They target Save Defenses (which is to say Save + 10, which Save varies). So to Disarm an Ogre you roll Athletics with a DC of 13 (10 + 3 for Reflex Save).
There seem to be no barriers at all to doing this (such as provoking AoO), though doing so counts as an attack (meaning it accrues and is subject to iterative penalties). Whether you can enhance maneuvers in some way is currently unknown (though it seems likely).
Maneuvers are a Skill check (usually with Athletics, though some seem to be Acrobatics or other stuff). They target Save Defenses (which is to say Save + 10, which Save varies). So to Disarm an Ogre you roll Athletics with a DC of 13 (10 + 3 for Reflex Save).
There seem to be no barriers at all to doing this (such as provoking AoO), though doing so counts as an attack (meaning it accrues and is subject to iterative penalties). Whether you can enhance maneuvers in some way is currently unknown (though it seems likely).
I'm happy to see this rolled into Athletics. I'd forgotten about that, though I remember reading it. Thank you both for bringing it up!
I suspect most martial classes will be trained in Athletics (I'd need to go back and check the blogs).
Do you folks think that will be enough of a boost in terms of access? Martials in 1e needed some love, and maneuvers are a thematic way to do that.
|
|
I'm happy to see this rolled into Athletics. I'd forgotten about that, though I remember reading it. Thank you both for bringing it up!
No problem. I like it as a rules call, since Athletics is maybe a little weak without it.
I suspect most martial classes will be trained in Athletics (I'd need to go back and check the blogs).
It actually seems completely up to the player what skills they purchase. Class restricts getting them to high levels, but anyone can be Trained in anything.
Do you folks think that will be enough of a boost in terms of access? Martials in 1e needed some love, and maneuvers are a thematic way to do that.
We'll see. Thus far they look pretty neat as an option. Not always optimal, but allowing some legitimate utility in combat.
Taking the multiple attack penalty is pretty rough. I was hoping that wouldn't apply to them so that combat become more than just bash bash bash. I wonder if you can make them agile at least.
Taking the multiple attack penalty is pretty rough. I was hoping that wouldn't apply to them so that combat become more than just bash bash bash. I wonder if you can make them agile at least.
Yeah, it is. Taking away the penalty could be a way to make them a viable second/third action choice, and let them compete with spells. Casters can cast up to 3 spells a round, yeah? (Do we know if the increased penalty applies to these spells if there's any sort of roll?)
So.
I'd love to see class feats (for martials) that did something like:
* Add options for X maneuvers on a general and critical success
* Add flexibility options for maneuvers in general
And in general:
* Better odds when you use more actions to complete a maneuver (similar to how spells are)
* Martial-focused, with a nod towards monk. For example, a special feature might possess a requirement of Monk 2, then Level 4 for non-monk, martial classes.
Most spells are 2 actions, so, no, casters aren’t casting 3 a round.
Hey, glad to hear that. I'd been under the impression that there were some that were 1 action. They aren't as powerful, but it was possible, you know?
I'm thinking about something lik a duelist's feint and strike (probably keying off of deception) or the brute's trip (via a kick to the chest) and power attack on the prone foe. that's the sort of combat that is more fun to narrate. Maybe fainting would work for a rogue because sneak attack but for other classes it seem they are better off just attacking multiple times.
They could try and provide a benefit for an ally but if there is one they are already flanking which gives the same flat footed penalty that prone and feinting would give.
That said there might be a feat that makes it not count as a strike. That seems powerful enough to be worth a feat.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Most spells are 2 actions, so, no, casters aren’t casting 3 a round.Hey, glad to hear that. I'd been under the impression that there were some that were 1 action. They aren't as powerful, but it was possible, you know?
There are a few exceptions on some iconic spells. Heal can be cast as a touch spell for 1 action, a ranged spell for 2 actions, and an AoE spell for thee actions. Magic missile can be used to throw off a quick missile for one action or more and more missiles up to using three actions to cast it. The previewed paladin spells were one action, the bard inspire courage was one action (and lasts one round). But I think those are exceptions and almost all spells will be two actions.
They said something about the size differences right? That some playtest guy was grappling giants and such?
This is good news. I was worried that PF2 maneuvers were getting the -8 to hit from Starfinder.