I'm playing a slayer in a game and I have evasion from taking a Rogue advanced talent. However, Slayers don't get access to improved evasion as it's not on the list of advanced talents they can take.
However, I would like to still gain this ability if possible. Are there other ways can I gain improved evasion?
Thanks!
Bump.
It's weird the way the slayer talent is worded because evasion isn't an advanced rogue talent, the advanced rogue talent is improved evasion.
In theory you could take the feat extra rogue talent and pick improved evasion with it. Since extra rogue talent just states.
Benefit: You gain one additional rogue talent. You must meet all of the prerequisites for this rogue talent.
and the rogue talent improved evasion just requires that you have the advanced talents class feature which you have. I would suggest checking with your dm 1st though, since they may disagree with this interpretation.
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The Extra Rogue Talent feat has a prerequisite of "Rogue talent class feature", which the slayer does not get. No luck there.
The Extra Rogue Talent feat has a prerequisite of "Rogue talent class feature", which the slayer does not get. No luck there.
hmmm.... I guess I just misread the pre-req. I thought it just required that you have a rogue talent in order to take it.
I guess you could take a couple of levels of rogue to qualify for the Extra Rogue Talent feat.
Extra Rogue talent doesn't work. Extra Rogue Talent doesn't give you an Advanced Talent (AFAICT 'talents' and 'advanced talents' are different).
I was looking at various ways around it, but all I've found out so far is the Ninja has the same problem.
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Extra Rogue talent doesn't work. Extra Rogue Talent doesn't give you an Advanced Talent (AFAICT 'talents' and 'advanced talents' are different).
yes and no. You'll notice that if you look at rogue, they continue to get "rogue talents" all the way up to 20th level. However, at level 10 they gain the advanced rogue talents ability which lets them pick an advanced rogue talent in place of a normal rogue talent. Additionally, there isn't such a feat as "Extra Advanced Rogue Talent". So, the intention seems to be that you can take the feat extra rogue talent after level 10 to pick up an advanced rogue talent.
All that being said, the wording for slayer is still strange since it lists a bunch of things that actually appear on the advanced rogue talent list and then just evasion. Seems like it should say improved evasion, but then it would let you get improved evasion without ever getting evasion. Then again, the rogue talent improved evasion doesn't even require evasion as pre-req so as a rogue you can get improved evasion even if you have an archetype that trades away evasion.
Hmm good points LK, I think it still fails though as slayer/ninja don't have the 'advanced talent' class feature unlocking the advanced talents. With the way they've listed the talents it appears to me they are deliberately keeping improved evasion off the table for both ninja and slayer.
Level 12+ for 1 minute/day: Stalkers Focus choosing mouse as your focus
Not a lot of choices for improved evasion for you. Honestly, I'd just find some method of allowing a re-roll just in case you fail your save.
Fascinating. Seems like I may be out of luck.
The reason why I want it is unusual. I've been given a custom weapon that when I hit someone with the blade, a fireball goes off, targeted on the wielder. I already have evasion, but my GM made the call that due to the nature of the weapon (it's a little vindictive despite not being intelligent), normal evasion doesn't work vs. this weapon's wielder, you need to have improved evasion in order to evade your own fireball blasting sword.
That's why I'd like to have it.
But Slayers DO get advanced talents, they're just advanced Slayer talents (which is a small list, and includes Rogue advanced talents and Ninja master tricks). You get it at 10th level:
At 10th level and every 2 levels thereafter, a slayer can select one of the following advanced talents in place of a slayer talent.
A complete listing of slayer advanced talents can be found here: Slayer Advanced Talents
Do you think that changes anything? Maybe I can talk to my GM.
Edit: For clarity, also I FAQ'd LK's post about whether or not the Slayer getting evasion and not improved evasion is a mistake.
The reason why I want it is unusual. I've been given a custom weapon that when I hit someone with the blade, a fireball goes off, targeted on the wielder. I already have evasion, but my GM made the call that due to the nature of the weapon (it's a little vindictive despite not being intelligent), normal evasion doesn't work vs. this weapon's wielder, you need to have improved evasion in order to evade your own fireball blasting sword.
Ditch the weapon, or get a lot of fire resistance.
But Slayers DO get advanced talents, they're just advanced Slayer talents (which is a small list, and includes Rogue advanced talents and Ninja master tricks). You get it at 10th level:
You get access to Advanced Slayer Talents, which includes some advanced rogue talents and advanced ninja tricks. It does not include all of them. Ninjas (for example) do not get Improved Evasion as an advanced Ninja Trick. This is the list of 'advanced talents' you can pick from the rogue/ninja list: deadly sneak(APG), evasion(UC), feat(UC), hunter’s surprise(APG), knock-out blow(APG), master of disguise(APG), opportunist, stealthy sniper(APG), or any rogue advanced talent from Blood of Shadows.
Edit: For clarity, also I FAQ'd LK's post about whether or not the Slayer getting evasion and not improved evasion is a mistake.
It's not a mistake. Slayers don't get access to improved evasion through their class abilities.
You get access to Advanced Slayer Talents, which includes some advanced rogue talents and advanced ninja tricks. It does not include all of them. Ninjas (for example) do not get Improved Evasion as an advanced Ninja Trick.
Actually, they can get improved evasion.
The ninja cannot select improved evasion unless she has evasion (either as a class feature or as a ninja master trick).
So, a ninja can pick up evasion as a master trick and then take advanced tricks to get improved evasion from the advanced rogue talent list.
Edit: For clarity, also I FAQ'd LK's post about whether or not the Slayer getting evasion and not improved evasion is a mistake.It's not a mistake. Slayers don't get access to improved evasion through their class abilities.
Yeah, after discovering that evasion is a master ninja talent it makes more sense. So, I agree this probably isn't a typo.
However, as suggested before, it does look like if you were to take 2 levels in rogue, this should qualify you for being able to take improved evasion, either directly with the talent gained at 2nd level or the extra rogue talent feat. Improved evasion simply indicates that you need the class feature "Advanced Talents" which you have being a slayer. It would have the side benefit of granting you normal evasion as well.
Actually, they can get improved evasion.
Well, that teaches me for doing a partial skim and not actually looking at the Ninja class to verify. Good catch.
However, as suggested before, it does look like if you were to take 2 levels in rogue, this should qualify you for being able to take improved evasion, either directly with the talent gained at 2nd level or the extra rogue talent feat. Improved evasion simply indicates that you need the class feature "Advanced Talents" which you have being a slayer. It would have the side benefit of granting you normal evasion as well.
This ... makes me frown as a GM/DM but I reluctantly admit that it appears to work. Meh, I'd allow it. It is only do-able at 12th level and above. Let them eat cake.
I'll talk to my GM and see if we can make somekind of houserule or arrangement since I don't want to dip into Rouge if I can avoid it.
Thanks everyone for the help.
Fascinating. Seems like I may be out of luck.
The reason why I want it is unusual. I've been given a custom weapon that when I hit someone with the blade, a fireball goes off, targeted on the wielder. I already have evasion, but my GM made the call that due to the nature of the weapon (it's a little vindictive despite not being intelligent), normal evasion doesn't work vs. this weapon's wielder, you need to have improved evasion in order to evade your own fireball blasting sword.
That's why I'd like to have it.
Well, you can use it in unorthodox ways:
* Replace someone's sword with this one. Summon Monster near them. Good times.* Use Suggestion. Give the sword to NPC helpers or evil NPCs. Suggest that they attack <x> with the sword possibly.
Also:
* Have someone cast Resist Energy on you (this is the simplest and easiest remedy)
* Wear Fire-Forged equipment for a couple res
* Elemental Body (fire)
Side Note:
Your GM is probably giving this to you to play with a little bit before finding an important use for it.
Fascinating. Seems like I may be out of luck.
The reason why I want it is unusual. I've been given a custom weapon that when I hit someone with the blade, a fireball goes off, targeted on the wielder. I already have evasion, but my GM made the call that due to the nature of the weapon (it's a little vindictive despite not being intelligent), normal evasion doesn't work vs. this weapon's wielder, you need to have improved evasion in order to evade your own fireball blasting sword.
That's why I'd like to have it.
Well, you can use it in unorthodox ways:
* Replace someone's sword with this one. Summon Monster near them. Good times.
* Use Suggestion. Give the sword to NPC helpers or evil NPCs. Suggest that they attack <x> with the sword possibly.Also:
* Have someone cast Resist Energy on you (this is the simplest and easiest remedy)
* Wear Fire-Forged equipment for a couple res
* Elemental Body (fire)Side Note:
Your GM is probably giving this to you to play with a little bit before finding an important use for it.
I didn't go into details about the sword for time, and it wasn't relevant to my question. There's more to it than what I said. First of all, it's a rifle/sword hybrid...a gunblade if you will. My character has accidentally been collecting dangerous weapons that can harm the user as well as do large amounts of damage to whoever you hit (I have several now). The gun is a bit of ancient dwarven tech (This is a homebrewed setting, by the way) that had properties that required dwarven crafting masters to unlock. I had the gun part unlocked long ago, and just got the blade part unlocked in our last session. Here is the weapon's cool properties:
The Gunblade grants proficiency to the wielder. The gun has the stats of a pepperbox rifle, but the wielder chooses it's enhancement bonus (+1-+5), but takes the bonus in damage every time it's fired.
Example: I can shoot someone at a +5 to attack and damage, but I will take 5 points of damage myself from firing the gun.
The sword part when a target is hit, a fireball will detonate with the wielder as the center of the spell, using the wielder's level as the CL of the fireball (12 currently for me). This provides an AOE ability for the party (which we currently lack). Here's the kicker, if the wielder is resistant to fire damage, the gunbalde will shift the fireball to a different type of elemental damage (including sonic and force, but still functions like fireball in form of attack) until it finds something the wielder is NOT resistant to.
Example: My character is resistant to fire, I hit someone with the sword, the spell goes off, switches to a frostball (or an lightningball, or acidball, etc.). If you happen to be resistant to all forms including sonic and force, the sword insults you instead.
Also, Evasion will not work with this weapon, you need Improved Evasion to be able to evade the damage if you're the wielder.
My character is an Aasimar, so not resistant to fire. I want to keep it because it's fun, and it's now part of my weird collection (trust me, this weapon is tame compared to the sword that has a 1 in 400 chance of cutting my own head off with). And, frankly, that's useful to be able to do 12d6 fire damage with a sword, if I can avoid the damage myself.
So yeah, that's what it does, why I want Improved Evasion, and why I want to keep it. Haha.
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{. . .}
Example: My character is resistant to fire, I hit someone with the sword, the spell goes off, switches to a frostball (or an lightningball, or acidball, etc.). If you happen to be resistant to all forms including sonic and force, the sword insults you instead.
{. . .}
Okay, now you've GOT to become resistant to all forms of energy so that you can hear (and tell us) just what the sword says . . . .
{. . .}
Example: My character is resistant to fire, I hit someone with the sword, the spell goes off, switches to a frostball (or an lightningball, or acidball, etc.). If you happen to be resistant to all forms including sonic and force, the sword insults you instead.
{. . .}Okay, now you've GOT to become resistant to all forms of energy so that you can hear (and tell us) just what the sword says . . . .
I'm curious too. Well, if I ever get fire, sonic, and force resistance (yeah right, like that'll happen), I'll let you know what it says. Haha!
Found this post when a player of mine asked about ways they could get improved evasion since it didn't seem like they could get it by RAW without a class dip. FUNNY THAT.
In this specific case it seemed reasonable that getting evasion twice would grant improved evasion (and allowing them to take 'evasion' twice too, for that matter). This is not unique since uncanny dodge follows this mechanic and evasion stacking seems to be a not-uncommon house-rule either.
I also feel compelled to add that the sword:
1) Doesn't get access force damage.
2) Is mildly intelligent (Somebody bolted an intellegent construct core to it in order to get 'autoaim' (Proficiency)).
3) Recognises the 'wielder' as the primary target of fireball in regards to selection of damage type
4) The effect works when you throw it; but since there is no 'wielder' to detect resistances of it will default it's damage type to its final available type - 'feelings' ie. insults the target. (Yes my players asked about throwing it)
Haha! We found each other! Thank you for the ruling.