Sorcerer dip for Ironfang


Advice


My older brother is going to be starting Ironfang Invasion soon but his party has decided to roll random characters. As to how random, race class and the not, I only know that his class was random and got stuck with Sorcerer. Another player rolled Wizard and will be summoning leaving my brother with the clear blaster caster path. The problem is, he is already playing a blaster sorcerer in another campaign. He is being a good sport about it but I suggested that he could make his level in sorcerer his dip level. He is interested in multi-classing but he needs a real build. I did my usual Dragadin shilling but he seems to want to be casting focused.

What options does he have? Sorcerer dips don't seem too powerful other than for blasting. Can a Sorcerer 5 / Dragon Disciple 10 survive melee, especially at early levels?


Sorcerer(2) dip for True Strike(V,F), then Paladin(3) for armor, smite, and Lay on Hands(swift action self heal), then Dragon Disciple. Grab Fey Foundling at 1st lvl for the +2hp/die on any healing done to you. Can also Cross-Blood Draconic with another if you want to pick up some thing extra, Karmic(Wildblooded) would add a nice defense, or Celestial for a light ranged heal.


Sorcerer dip with scaled fist monk? Straight sorcerer into enchantmwnt? Is arcane trickster of interest? Eldritch scrapper sorc dip with daring champion cavalier?

Knowing what other roles/concepts are in the party might help to find a sound reccomendation.


When I first made the post I didn't have much to go on. Since then, I've learned that he is an Elf, stats were rolled but I don't have specifics so I'd appreciate a priority list rather than numbers, other members are a wizard some martial and the party has no healer. Since he's an elf, Str builds are out as well as Save/Suck AFAIK.

It looks like he can go full dex route but what can a swashadin do with a level in Sorcerer? An Arcane Trickster would probably be the way to go. The problem is that Ironfang is a wilderness campaign and I don't know what Arcane Tricksters do other than progress SA and spells.


I was looking at Crossblooded Sage and Empyreal. This is now house rule territory but how bad is it? He could take Sage to cast with Int and Empyreal for channels at 9th. Throw in VMC Cavalier Order of The Star to add some extra levels to channel and boom. You get an Elf Sorcerer who can heal. How far fetched is this? I don't imagine my brother will go for this as it activates at 9th but I think its worth some consideration. If Sage/Empyreal is possible, are Empyreal abilities (channel energy) Int based? Does order of the Star work with Empyreal, its class - 4 effective cleric level?


You can't combine wild blooded and crossblooded archetypes. They modify some of the same features.


baggageboy wrote:
You can't combine wild blooded and crossblooded archetypes. They modify some of the same features.

To clarify, in the pathfinder society play and game tables that are absolutely strict on following the letter of the law (rules), you can not combine Wildblooded and Crossblooded. However, since your DM allows VMC (I assume as you mentioned it as a possibility) it most likely won't be a problem.

Anyway, I'm not sure if Empyreal + VMC Cavalier would be the best use of your options. The times per day of the faux-channel the sorcerer gets is extremely limited.

If it was me who was limited to an Elven sorcerer in this instance, I'd start making my way towards a nature themed Sorcerer/Shaman/Mythic Therge build, and I'd focus on party support/battlefield control. It won't be powerful, and I am sure you'd receive heavy recommendation against it by most people. Maybe throw in VMC Bard to fill in a bit of the force multiplier and knowledge skills. Between select spells, hexes, bard song, knowledge checks, and feat selection, you could be a valuable addition to the group and NOT step on the toes of the wizard.

If you still want to be 'blasting', it is easily possible (even with mystic theurge) by bloodline choices, feat choices, and possibly using Words of Power (or dipping into it). I'd leave it to someone else though.


What about full sorcerer focused on Illusion with a 1 dip in Heavens Mystery Oracle and the Awesome Display revelation for Color Spray knockouts. Cartmanbeck created an amazing Illusionist who focuses on Color Spray. Get Heighten Spell and/or Persistent Spell and you're in business.

cartmanbeck wrote:


My favorite combination:
Take 1 level of Heavens Oracle before starting into Sorcerer. Take the Awesome Display revelation, which treats enemies as if they had a number of hit dice LESS equal to your Charisma modifier for illusion [pattern] spells such as color spray and loathsome veil.

At 2nd level, your color sprays will knock ANYTHING out, and as you level up and continue adding to your Cha with level upgrades and magic items, it just keeps getting better. You can easily one-shot a boss by starting with loathsome veil which causes creatures to be nauseated (move action only) and then run up and color spray them to knock them out.

Obviously you want to take Spell Focus and Improved Spell Focus (Illusion). I've also found Persistent Spell (metamagic) to be more than worth it, as it forces them to make a second save if they make the first one.

Effortless Trickery is also very nice, which allows you to maintain an illusion that normally requires concentration as a Swift action instead of a Move action. Normally, when we start a combat I'll drop a loathsome veil to nauseate all the enemies before they come in range, then use a Threatening major image in a place which will provide flanking to Rogue-type characters, then if I can catch several enemies in a color spray I do that.

Let me know if you'd like to see my whole build (She's currently a level 10 Sylvan Sorcerer/1 Heavens Oracle with a spinosaurus companion, almost ready for retirement in Pathfinder Society play.)

cartmanbeck wrote:


Alright boys and girls, here you go:

Nalshene, Trade Princess
Female gnome Sylvan Sorcerer 10 / Heavens Oracle 1
CG Small humanoid (gnome)
Init +5; Senses low-light vision; Perception +11

-----Defense-----
AC 13, touch 13, flat-footed 12 (+1 deflection, +1 Dex, +1 size)
hp 59 (10d6 + 1d8 + 11) [add False Life]
Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +9 (+2 vs. fear)
Defensive abilities eternal hope (1/day, re-roll a 1 on a d20)

-----Offense-----
Speed 15 ft. (lame curse)
Melee cestus +4 (1d4-2) or sickle +4 (1d6-2)
Ranged ranged touch spell +7 (by spell)

Gnome spell-like abilities (CL 11th, concentration +19)
1/day - dancing lights, ghost sound, prestidigitation, speak with animals

Bloodline spell-like abilities (CL 10th, concentration +18)
At will - greater invisibility (9 rounds/day)

Sorcerer spells known (CL 10th, concentration +18)
5th (4/day) - shadow evocation (DC 25), Persistent loathsome veil (DC 23)
4th (7/day) - beast shape II, poison, shocking image, Threatening minor image (DC 23), Persistent hypnotic pattern (DC 22)
3rd (8/day) - deep slumber (DC 21), loathsome veil (DC23), fly, major image (DC 23), Threatening minor image (DC 22), Persistent color spray (DC 21)
2nd (9/day) - burst of radiance (DC 20), create pit (DC 20), false life, hypnotic pattern (DC 22), minor image (DC 22), Threatening silent image (DC 21)
1st (10/day) - color spray (DC 21), detect evil, illusion of calm (DC 21), mage armor, silent image (DC 21), stumble gap (DC 19), summon monster I
0th (at will) - acid splash, daze (DC 18), detect magic, light, mage hand, read magic, unwitting ally (DC 18)
Bloodline Fey [Sylvan]

Oracle spells known (CL 1st, concentration +9)
1st (5/day) - ant haul, cure light wounds, tap inner beauty
0th (at will) - detect poison, enhanced diplomacy, guidance, stabilize
Mystery Heavens

-----Statistics-----
Str 6, Dex 12, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 26
Base Atk +5, CMB +2, CMD 13
Feats Boon Companion, Effortless Trickery, Eschew Materials, Improved Initiative, Persistent Spell, Spell Focus (Illusion), Threatening Illusion, Versatile Spontaneity
Traits Two-World Magic (unwitting ally), Eastern Mysteries (from Guide to Pathfinder Society Play), Eyes and Ears of the City (from Extra Trait boon)
Skills Appraise +10, Bluff +17, Diplomacy +29, Fly +5, Handle Animal +19, Heal +3, Intimidate +14, Kn. Arcana +15, Kn. History +6, Kn. Nature +6, Kn. Planes +6, Kn. Religion +6, Linguistics +4, Perception +11, Spellcraft +14, UMD +14
Languages Common, Draconic, Gnome, Osiriani, Sylvan, Thassilonian, Varisian
SQ bloodline powers (animal companion [spinosaurus], woodland stride, fleeting glance), academician (Kn. Arcana), curse (lame), eternal hope, gnome magic, gnome weapon familiarity, revelations (awesome display), prestige awards and vanities (caravan, expert entrepreneur, master of trade, trade prince, underground ring)
Combat gear spring-loaded wrist sheaths (wands of cure light wounds and shield), vermin repellant (5), dweomer's essence (2), minor rod of Selective Spell, minor rod of Piercing Spell, mask of the tiger's eye, potions [feather step, bristle], scrolls [mage armor (4), stumble gap (2), unprepared combatant (2), expeditious retreat (2), grease (2), bull's strength, bear's endurance, blur (2), reduce person (12), create pit (2), wind wall, false life (2), color spray (2), gravity bow (2), burning hands (4), major image (1), comprehend languages (2), animal aspect, ill omen, magic fang, haste (2), true seeing, distracting cacophany, honeyed tongue, invisibility sphere, tongues (2), remove blindness/deafness (2)], wands [shield, enlarge person, protection from evil, web, summon monster I (CL3), cure light wounds, lesser restoration, dispel magic (CL 14), gaseous form, invisibility purge]
Other gear headband of Cha +4, cloak of resistance +1, mnemonic vestments, ring of protection +1, ring of spell knowledge type III, ring of feather falling, meridian belt, handy haversack, page of spell knowledge (create pit), page of spell knowledge (stumble gap), bracelet of bargaining, wayfinder (jade and diamond encrusted enhancements containing cracked pink and green sphere ioun stone), various sundry items

Narshala, spinosaurus companion
Effective druid level 11
Female spinosaurus
N Large animal
Init +3; Senses low-light vision, scent; Perception +5

-----Defense-----
AC 28, flat-footed 25, touch 12 (+5 armor, +3 Dex, +11 natural, -1 size) (+2 vs. demons)
hp 76 (9d8 + 36)
Fort +11, Ref +10, Will +4 (+4 vs. enchantments)
Defensive abilities evasion, DR 2/- (only vs. demons)

-----Offense-----
Speed 30 ft., swim 30 ft.
Melee bite +11 (1d8+14) and 2 claws +12 (1d6+14)
or bite +13 (1d8+14)
or claw +14 (1d8+14)
Space 10 ft. Reach 5 ft.

-----Statistics-----
Str 30, Dex 16, Con 19, Int 3, Wis 13, Cha 3
Base Atk +6, CMB +17 (+23 bull rush), CMD 30 (36 vs. bull rush, 34 vs. trip)
Feats Improved Bull Rush, Greater Bull Rush, Narrow Frame, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (claw)
Skills Acrobatics +9, Climb +14, Escape Artist +4, Fly +7, Perception +5, Stealth +3, Swim +22 Racial bonuses +8 Swim
Other gear +1 Demon-defiant studded leather, cloak of resistance +1, menacing amulet of mighty fists

Edit: A couple things I put on here that are slightly "non-standard" on NPC blocks: I included metamagic versions of spells that I use often in the "spells known" section, so they don't actually count as separate spells known.

As you can see, I have a TON of scrolls that I've picked up throughout the many PFS sessions I've played with her and either forgotten to use or just not needed at the time. Her armor class is obviously super low, but I keep mage amor and false life on her pretty much all the time (10 hours a day for one cast pretty much takes care of it). I also cast shield on the animal companion often for an additional +4 to her armor class.

The most important part of the build, and what makes her devastating to enemies, is the revelation "Awesome Display" which treats enemies as if they had your Cha mod fewer hit dice for the effects of illusion [pattern] spells, which means things like hypnotic pattern, loathsome veil, and color spray.

I also like to drop the Threatening images on the other side of enemies when Narshala is beating on them, since she gets an additional +2 flanking bonus thanks to her Menacing amulet of mighty fists.


Thank you everyone for your great suggestions, the game starts soon but my brother was allowed to reroll his class and got cleric. While Elven clerics aren't too good, he's making a str based cleric of Iomedae. Consider this case closed.


The weapon proficiencies and bonus to overcome SR are handy at least.

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