I know this seems a little cheesy, but is it legal/viable to build a Level 1 build for a character - and then change it before hitting Level 2 in order to make the Level 1 not feel so clunky?
Yes it is legal. The idea is to work out the kinks. A lvl 1 battle host occultist is fun imo
I was thinking of taking a Human race trait that unlocks knowledge as class skills, then switching over to Wayfinder for linguistics once I have the knolwedge from my second class.
@Firebug - That looks oddly similar to one of the characters I was brainstorming for with my Pathfinder. Either for the Sovreign Court or the Liberty's edge...
STR 18 || INT 12
DEX 10 || WIS 8
CON 14 || CHA 16
Level 1 Feat: Noble Scion (Arts)
Race: Human - with Duel Talented
Class: Paladin (Oath of the People's Counsel Boon)
Trait 1: Chosen of Iomedae
Trait 2: Arodenite Sword Training
Though, that requires a Boon before I can use it. This is the idea that I was thinking of switching too before altering it level 2:
STR 07 || INT 20
DEX 16 || WIS 09
CON 12 || CHA 07
Level 1 Feat: Combat Reflexs
Swashbuckler Feat: Weapon Focus Rapier
Swashbuckler Feat: Weapon Finesse Rapier
Human Bonus Feat: Fencing Grace
Race: Human - (Comprehensive Education)
Class: Swashbuckler
Trait 1: Librarian (Dark Archive)
Trait 2: Student of Philosophy
Favorite Class: Swashbuckler
Skill Points: 10
* Acrobatics +7
* Diplomacy +2 (+9 w/ Student of Philosophy)
* Bluff (+9 w/ Student of Philosophy)
* Linguistics +6
* Prof: Librarian +4
* Kn: Local +10
* Kn: Nobility +10
* Kn: Nature +9
* Kn: Planes +9
* Kn: Arcana +9
STR 07 || INT 19
DEX 16 || WIS 13
CON 12 || CHA 07
Level 1 Feat: Combat Reflexs
Swashbuckler Feat: Weapon Focus Rapier
Swashbuckler Feat: Weapon Finesse Rapier
Human Bonus Feat: Fencing Grace
Race: Human - (Wayfinder)
Class: Swashbuckler
Trait 1: Librarian (Dark Archive)
Trait 2: Student of Philosophy
Favorite Class: Investigator
Skill Points: 19
* 1 - Acrobatics +7
* 1 - Bluff (+9 w/ Student of Philosophy)
* 1 - Diplomacy +2 (+9 w/ Student of Philosophy)
* 1 - Disable Device +7
* 1 - Escape Artist +7
* 1 - Kn: Arcana +8 (+11 when Referencing Books)
* 1 - Kn: Dungeoneering +8 (+11 when Referencing Books)
* 1 - Kn: Engineering +8 (+11 when Referencing Books)
* 1 - Kn: Geography +10 (+13 when Referencing Books)
* 1 - Kn: History +8 (+11 when Referencing Books)
* 1 - Kn: Local +10 (+13 when Referencing Books)
* 1 - Kn: Nature +8 (+11 when Referencing Books)
* 1 - Kn: Nobility +8 (+11 when Referencing Books)
* 1 - Kn: Planes +8 (+11 when Referencing Books)
* 1 - Kn: Religion +8 (+11 when Referencing Books)
* 2 - Linguistics +2 (4 bonus Languages)
* 2 - Prof: Librarian +8
The whole concept of the character is to be a giant book worm, but still be /okay/ when it comes to fighting. He is basically a skill money who focuses on Parry more than actual fighting, lol.
So a lot to go over. My usual go to is a similar idea. Currently have a level 6 swashtigtor.
First thing, you can only parry and riposte 1x not equal to aoe. Also if you are thinking extra attacks from longarm that won't work either because the weapon doesn't have reach.
Second, stats..no please not that. First try to put equipment on that character.. honest the armor and rapier will almost fill up your carry weight. Trust me it sucks. I went a bit odd for mine. 13 str, 18 dex, 12 con, 15 int, 12 wis and 7 cha.
To consider.. half elf is pretty nice. Favored gives you +1 to your inspiration. Along with low light and other perks. I was ridiculous and put skill focus in umd. Also you put no points in alchemy.. with the class boost that is a really nice day job. Oh get crafter's fortune asap.
So I actually picked up power attack at 3 because I was hitting all the time but dr was getting annoying. At 4 I took mutagen for dex. At 5 I took extend potion [extra talent] and 6 was quick study.
I have a ton of gear.. gm was shocked when I pulled out a wand of detect magic. I've been building up a list of potions.. every level 2 spot is reserved for alchemical allocation. Planning to take enhance potion soon basically 4x a day I can use a potion and make it equal my lvl and double duration... literally allows me to use any buff in the game.
Buffed I'm +14 to hit and 1d6+11+2 ac 26 (29 if I use my wand of shield) only pt 1 point in knowledge but at 12+1d6+1 on all of them. Umd is at +18.
Sorry for tangent, it's been fun to play
Totally legal, but not necessarily optimal, especially for relatively new players, or when trying out a new concept.
The idea is you can tweak things over your first three adventures, as you figure out what works and what doesn't.
If you make a drastic change when you hit the Level 2 mark, and then discover that something doesn't work quite as well as you thought, you can't do anything about it since you're locked in at that point.
Totally legal, but not necessarily optimal, especially for relatively new players, or when trying out a new concept.
The idea is you can tweak things over your first three adventures, as you figure out what works and what doesn't.
If you make a drastic change when you hit the Level 2 mark, and then discover that something doesn't work quite as well as you thought, you can't do anything about it since you're locked in at that point.
level 1 is so swingy and unpredictable, and you really don't have access to many of the moving parts of many classes I really don't think level 1 is that great for trying things out nor for working out what does/doesn't work IMO. First level is something to endure/survive.
(can you tell I'm not a fan of level 1? and I was trying so hard to hide it!)
Yeah honestly level 1 is rough you don't have a whole lot and you are so squishy. When I used to gm, if the player brought me a back story, I would move them to level 2
Legal, but bear in mind when you rebuild at level 2, you still need to build level 1 based on what was available then. For example, Power Attack has a requirement of BAB +1 so you couldn’t, say, do a level 2 rebuild of Magus 1 and Magus 2 in which your level 1 feat was Power Attack, even though Magus 2 now has the required BAB of +1.
A similar issue arises for Animal Companions, which cannot take feats like PA until level 2.
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I GM credit past level 1 when I can, but sometimes I end up playing a character before then. What I’ve done before on builds that are planning to dip a martial class is to play as the eventual class at level 1, then rebuild at level 2 so that the dip class is level 1. That way I’m still a Vigilante or wizard or whatever at level 1, but when I hit level 2 I get the benefits of the +1 BAB d10HP class as my first level. Which means Power Attack, more HPs, etc.
For a while I also had a level 1 character that I would play instead of a pregen. So if I didn’t have a fresh level 1, I’d just pull out Grawlp the natural weapon fighting tengu ranger and assign him to whatever my new number was. Later I’d rebuild into whatever I decided to make. Grawlp wasn’t as optimized for surviving level 1 as a Barbarian with all the hitpoints, but he was effective. I could never figure out where I wanted the build to go, so he stayed level 1. Now he’s my Spiritualist’s phantom/dead mate, so he never did make it any higher. He never actually died in game. I just thought it would be fun to make him a phantom.
@Ekibus - The build you gave looks like a viable build for a combat focused character... But this character was going to have combat as a Trinary focus rather than a Primary. The reason is that many of the people in my group are already primarily focused on Combat, to the point that encounters rarely last more than 2-3 turns. I made a combat focused character yesterday - but he felt more like dead weight because of how fast the encounters ended, and he didn't even do much...
Unfortunately, PFS doesn't allow you to "just move them to level 2". I personally feel that starting level 2 in PFS would fix a lot of the issues, but that is just my own personal feelings...
@Joe Naval L'ver - I'll look at the account when I get a chance, thanks for sharing! lol.
@RogueJK - Honestly, level 1 just feels like an unwanted chore... I just have to make a level 1 build that "works" then change it at level 2 when its actually grown a little more.
@Dragonhunterq - My feeling exactly.
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After reviewing my previous adventures, it appears that I should have approximately 1800 gp to spend upon reaching level 2. Unfortunately, I'll only have 6 fame that I can use - meaning I'll need another 3 fame before I can afford Muleback Cords. Muleback Cords should resolve the issue of my Carry Capacity, as it brings my 8 strength to a 16 strength. This just means I'll have to survive an additional 2 encounters after turning level 2 in order to actually carry my items. lol
With that being said, here is an updated build to my level 2:
STR: 8 | INT: 20
CON: 12 | WIS: 8
DEX: 17 | CHA: 7
AC: 17 | Touch: 13 | Flat Foot: 14
Fort: +1 | Ref: +7 | Will: +1
Skills: (19 Total)
- Bluff: +9
- Craft (Alchemy): +10
- Diplomacy: +10
- Disable Device: +7
- Kn (Arcane): +10 (+12 w/ Book)
- Kn (Dungeoneering): +10 (+12 w/ Book)
- Kn (Engineering): +10 (+12 w/ Book)
- Kn (Geography): +12 (+14 w/ Book)
- Kn (History): +10 (+12 w/ Book)
- Kn (Local): +12 (+14 w/ Book)
- Kn (Nature): +10 (+12 w/ Book)
- Kn (Nobility): +10 (+12 w/ Book)
- Kn (Planes): +10 (+12 w/ Book)
- Kn (Religion): +10 (+12 w/ Book)
- Linguistics: +9 (4 Bonus Languages)
- Spellcraft: +8
Feats:
- (Bonus) Weapon Focus: Rapier
- (Bonus) Weapon Finesse: Rapier
- (Bonus) Fencing Finesse
- Dilettante
- Hide Shirt (18 lbs.): +3 AC, M.Dex: +4, -1 Check
- Buckler Shield (5 lbs.): +1 AC, -1 Check
- Rapier (2 lbs.)
Dropped Weight: 59/60 lbs. (Medium Weight)
- Masterwork Backback: 4 lbs.
- Alchemist's Kit: 20 lbs. (Already used some items)
- Pathfinder Chronicles: 10 lbs. (x10 Books)
* Combat Weight is the Weight that cannot be dropped. Dropped Weight is the weight which I drop when combat begins.
Once he gets 3 more Fame after level 2, he should be able to buy Mule Cords.
About the level 2, that was when I gmed aka home brew. I like how mine came out, with the possible exception of taking sickening strike, I plan to go with ability enhancers. He isn't totally geared for combat his skills are really good for a level 6.
I've seen too many things do str damage to trust a 7. Muleback costs a lot and if I remember it takes your cloak of resist spot. If you have a steady party congrats, it's very rare for me to play with the same characters twice so I plan for the worse.
Look into alchemical allocation, to me that is one of the most versatile ability