I want to Build a Swordlord (the Prestige class) and I am not sure how i should enter it) I have about 7 to 8 levels to work with and i am unsure what should be my entry class or classes.
I am Debating Bravo (Swashbuckler) Though something tells me this would be to good to be true
or some other build if it what work better
I am planning to take dueling cloak Adept as a trait
I want to be able to feint as part of my fighting style and gain large ac bonuses
could something be done with monk?
Take five levels of Swashbuckler and three levels of Snakebite Striker Brawler.
I'm assuming you'll want to get into the prestige class ASAP and so you're looking at
Class(5) / Swordlord (2-3)
5 levels in swashbuckler, monk or brawler will give you a +1 to AC so, none of them have an advantage over the other. In order to get into the class you will need 4 feats and 14 skill points (aprox 3 per level). Ideally, the class you pick will give you the skill points and feats you need as bonuses, leaving as many of your normal feats as possible open for whatever else your character might want. The prestige class suggests Ranger, rogues, slayers, and swashbucklers as potential avenues. So we will look at that as well as monk, brawler and fighter.
Brawler - +1AC, 2 Feats, 4 skills/lvl, only need int 13 for combat feats
Fighter(Defender) - +2AC(after attack), 3 Feats, 2 skills/lvl, +1 to hit with dueling sword (weapon training)
Monk(Weapon Adept) - +1AC, 3 Feats, 4 skills/lvl, fast movement
Rogue(Swashbuckler) - +0AC, 2 Feats, 8 skills/lvl, sneak attack
Ranger(Freebooter) - +0AC, 1 Feat, 6 skills/lvl, +1 to hit
Slayers - +0AC, 2 Feats, 6 skills/lvl, Studied Target
Swashbuckler(Bravo) - +1AC, 4 Feats, 4 skills/lvl, +1 to hit with dueling sword (weapon training), Deeds
Looking over it, the clear standouts to me are Fighter(Defender), Monk(Weapon Adept) and Swashbuckler. Defender specifically grants an AC bonus that stacks with the prestige class, as well as letting you pick up most of the feats you'll need as bonus feats. The Bravo Archetype also specifically seems to set you up for the prestige class by granting you the feats you'll want as bonus feats. Monk is a solid 3rd since it doesn't support the prestige class as strongly as the other 2 but does atleast give you 3 of the 4 feats for free.
Brawler is interesting, but since there's no archetype for it that supports the type of character you're trying to make I think it falls short, unless you're having to sacrifice a lot statwise to get an int score of 13.
Ok Most likey going going Bravo
is the swordplay style any good mainly for the second feat in the line
LordKalias nailed it with the rundown for gaining access as soon as possible.
I usually assume people that are entering prestige classes are in a fairly optimized or oversized party. The party can afford to have a player enter a prestige class, because generally prestige classes suck in Pathfinder.
As such, I usually try to build for a 10 level player that has everything you need, and you finish your last half in your chosen prestige class mainly for fun role play.
If the campaign doesn't run to late levels there are obviously reason to fast track to the prestige class, but otherwise, why rush to something that is borderline substandard?
I'd actually like plain fighter over the defender archetype. Defender gives you early access to the +1 dodge bonus that Swordlords get at 7th level, and you can max out the bonus by the time you hit 2nd level Swordlord (+2 dodge bonus to AC). This is in return for losing Armor Training.
This is going to be a high dex build, correct? You can make up for that 1 AC by armor training 1's bonus to max dex allowed. Assuming you've got a 20 or better dex, you'll have the same AC until you hit 2nd level Swordlord and then you'll be behind for 1 level till you actually gain the ability at 3rd. And when you eventually hit 7th level Swordlord you'll have 1 better AC than the defender build.
Also with armor training 1 you can use medium armor with no movement penalty. Without armor training you're best armor is going to be a Chain Shirt for a total of 8 AC from armor+dex. With armor training 1 you can branch out to Chain Shirt for 9, Chain Coat and Kikkio tied at 10 (Kikkio has 1 more AC, but 1 less dex), and if you want to go heavy armor you'd be at 11 but with the movement penalty. But mithril versions would add another 1 ac and let you ignore the movement penalty thanks to armor training.
Also as a fighter you'll have Weapon Training, which means you can get Gloves of Dueling to add +2 to that bonus. Also lots of other really great bonuses for a Swordlord.
In a lot of ways basic fighter is a lot more than you'd expect. Lots of people don't realize how good the vanilla fighter is, and lots of people don't understand just how bad the archatypes are.
Oh, and pick up the traits Sword Scion and suspicious since both help out a fighter based Swordlord. I'd avoid the cloak one unless you really love Bluff for some unknown reason.
I have to say, I've seen a well and truly screwed up swordlord in a game I run; maybe it's just that non-spellcaster builds have less room for error in PF. It put this prestige class into my 'avoid' pile though.
Just to finish out my thoughts on Fighter. If you went that way I'd suggest for your 7 feats:
1: EWP: Dueling Sword, WF: Dueling Sword, Weapon Finesse.
2: Dazzling Display (might as well start early, you have to pump intimidate anyways)
3: Combat Expertise
4: Weapon Specialization
5: Quick Draw (to get the free Dueling Mastery next level)
If you are human either Combat Reflexes, or Combat Stamina if the GM is allowing stamina point rules to be used. Actually if you are human you could take Quick Draw and Dueling Mastery early so you can get the +2 to AC by 2nd level.
Just make sure you get all 3 feats listed at first level at first level, you'll need them to compensate for the lack of damage and to hit adds from strength. You'll hit like a wet noodle, but at least you'll hit consistently. Getting the shield bonus from Dueling Mastery at 2nd or 3rd level is fine. Heck, in my suggested build you don't get it till you become a Swordlord.
Do not go for Power Attack. Picking up your strength should be one of the last things you are concerned with. Stat wise, its Dex first, then Cha, 13 Int, anything left over into Con. As you advance levels get items to dump more into Dex and Cha. Str is only there to carry stuff, but don't buy it down.
skill wise advance intimidate and sense motive every level. Level 1-3 advance acrobatics, 3-5 advance knowledge(nobility). This means putting 1 favored class point into skills. If you love acrobatics then burn 3hp to advance KS:nobility. Honestly I'd recommend the minimum for acrobatics and nobility because you could use the extra 4hp you'll get, especially since you won't get the favored class bonus from Swordlord.
@ Everybody thanks but I've chosen another build
the swordlord was just not looking that good
so I have chosen to Build a Spear and shield fighter focused on Intimate
I just need help choosing the first 6 to 8 levels worth of feats
I know i want to wield a pole-arm and shield (AI' ok with out reach if it makes it to hard)
I want to wear spiked armor and use the spiked destroyer feat
also planing on shield slam and Improved shield bash
advice on feats from level 6-8
i feel like a more simple build is what i need
avr wrote: I have to say, I've seen a well and truly screwed up swordlord in a game I run; maybe it's just that non-spellcaster builds have less room for error in PF. It put this prestige class into my 'avoid' pile though. To be honest, a Swordlord should get beat down by any fighter of the same level. If the fighter decided to build to do exactly what the Swordlord does he'll miss a few tricks, but absolutely will kill the swordlord with or without his own weapon.
Against a Sword & shield fighter the Swordlord is going to be behind in damage, and depend on the build the fighter will have equal or better AC and to hit. The enchantment bonus on the fighters shield should make up for the extra AC the swordlord gets from his class bonuses, and most good fighter builds max out their dex bonus for the armor they wear.
I get why the Swordlord was created, but honestly it doesn't really do what it says it does. Mainly it gets a nice bonus to Dazzling Display and...nothing else to write home about. A full fighter of the same level should just eat the -2 to hit and kick the crap out of the swordlord. Especially when they didn't waste an extra feat on a questionable weapon. Though I'll say that Sword Scion trait makes up for the loss of a feat. But put another way, dueling sword is just an exotic Longsword, and you find enchanted longswords all the time. You never find magic dueling swords. And it isn't a scimitar either, and wouldn't most fighters rather using a scimitar? The extra crit range more than makes up for the slight reduction in damage.
The Vanilla Fighter is something that proves why Prestige Classes are lackluster.
If you are going to use Vanilla Fighter, why even bother with the prestige class? Why even bother with the dueling sword at all? Vanilla Fighter is an excellent way into Swordlord is one way to look at it... Swordlord is an excellent way to ruin a Vanilla Fighter is another.
Prestige Classes are about role playing potential, not power gaming, in my opinion.
JuliusCromwell wrote: @ Everybody thanks but I've chosen another build
the swordlord was just not looking that good
so I have chosen to Build a Spear and shield fighter focused on Intimate
I just need help choosing the first 6 to 8 levels worth of feats
I know i want to wield a pole-arm and shield (AI' ok with out reach if it makes it to hard)
I want to wear spiked armor and use the spiked destroyer feat
also planing on shield slam and Improved shield bash
advice on feats from level 6-8
i feel like a more simple build is what i need
That's a fairly long wishlist. Polearm and shield wants the shield brace feat, shield bashing needs TWF and improved shield bash, if you're going to use spiked destroyer then you want power attack and improved overrun at a minimum, and any form of combat intimidate will want at least one feat, probably two.
You could put it together as
1: weapon focus (some polearm)
Human: power attack
Fighter 1: shield brace
Fighter 2: improved overrun
3: spiked destroyer
Fighter 4: TWF
5: improved shield bash
Fighter 6: cornugon smash
& then look at filling out the feat lines you've started with improved TWF, greater overrun and/or charge through, shield slam etc.
Edit: the weapon focus isn't absolutely required, I put it in when I was looking at dazzling display. You could drop it and be a non-human, or replace it with a defensive feat if desired.
@Meirril: it didn't help that the player was entering it as a rogue, either. There was a happy ending though, it turned out that multiclassing to Dreamscarred Press's stalker class would fix his build and concept eventually.
@ Avr
If I do it right what should be my total attack bonus if they I have a 20 point buy and a wealth buy level supply of items?
Also Minor note
I am having trouble nailing a name for him.
I want something that's stands out
This actually harder than finding what I want to play lol
JuliusCromwell wrote:
i feel like a more simple build is what i need
Yeah, you do need a more simple build. This one requires a ton of feats. Pick which aspect you think you want the most and then build from there. I can see where you want to go, but you can't expect to start there.
I'd recommend starting with intimidate and shield bash. Once you've got shield bash to where you want it, start working on the reach, then add the spikes last since it feels like something tacked on as an afterthought. If you have the shield bash to a useful level I don't think you'd need the armor spikes, but that is just my opinion. You do you.
Possessed Hand might be good
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