So my party is coming to the end of the cost book and I've taken a close look at Zandalus's stat block. Besides the mismatch between his charisma and wisdom for his discipline (abomination uses CHA, he has an 8 CHA) I'm really unimpressed with the encounter. He's basically a 3rd level spellcaster locked in a small room with no minions to slow the party.
Now, I realize he's just the precursor to the Tatterman fight and I don't want to tax the PC's too heavily, but I also want him to survive at a few rounds (assuming he doesn't just fail his save vs. The witch's slumber hex).
I've been thinking of adding a few apostles into the mix to slow down the PC's. Amy thoughts on whether I should do this and if so how many?
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Adding apostles to the fight could work but I treated this encounter in an almost social way. My players new he was wrong in the head and didn't fully grasp the situation so when they confronted him, I had him act friendly (in a very insane way). My players tried getting on his good side and talked to him, with him reciprocating in kind, but all the while I had him casting spells. One of the greatest strengths of psychic casters is that they use emotional and thought based components so their casting can be a lot less obvious. Even once attacks began, I described them in ways that made my players think they were more akin to haunts that were tied to Zandalus, so they still weren't sure if Zandalus was insane with a good heart or just pure evil.
Ultimately, I'd recommend making the encounter wierd and creepy, which is fitting for the final boss of an asylum. Also, probably switch out those NPC levels for Zandalus and play the tatterman viciously to make up for the more social encounter before hand. The best tactics I've seen for the Tatterman are using shadow walk to separate the party and, what I did, using suggestion to isolate a party member after feigning death. There's a fair chance that you kill that pc (most likely by making them sleep and then coup de grace, through having them make a series of secret rolls) and then you can have them continue playing as the tatterman without knowing.
I don't have the book on me right now but I'll just say that the way I ran these encounters was crazy fun and led to the best roll playing of my entire time playing pathfinder.
While I swapped out his NPC levels for something more useful, I found Zandalus worked best as a decoy boss. Some conversation, some creepy imagery, the party charges and goes all out for the boss fight...and the guy casts maybe one spell before getting torn apart.
Everyone feels a little let down from the anticlimax, they spend a round or two searching the room and talking, then thick yellow smoke starts pouring from his wounds until it fills the room, and the real boss shows up.
After all, Zandalus isn't even a bad guy. He's just the bad guy's flesh-puppet.
I really weirded out my players by leaning heavily into the flesh puppet angle. I had his movements be all jerky and described him as not just being unfazed by the damage they dealt, but actively trying to make it more damaging. 'Cuz the Tatterman really wanted to get out and get into the real world. I also gave a DC 25 perception check (with the damage dealt subtracted from the DC) each time they dealt damage to notice little wisps of yellow smoke starting to escape from the wounds as they made them.
After a little bit of this my players all looked at each other and started wondering whether this was too easy, and if fighting this guy was actually a good idea or the right thing to do. Tatterman!Zandalus rather forced their hands by not letting up with the bleeding magic missiles. :D
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I don't know, it seems to be a very long fight considering they go through bag lady and oneirogens just before fighting him and the Tatterman.
I also have the intention to start Zandalus as a social encounter.
I was thinking he could be using Lullaby constantly from F3 to F2 when the pcs start fighting the oneirogens, making the fight a bit harder. It might not do much anyway, my group has an elf, immune to sleep and a wizard and a paladin with high will saves.
If I swapped out Zandalus's expert levels for psychic I don't think it would increase his CR. But for most intents and purposes he's a level 3 caster with a couple of extra HD. Personally, I'd rate him as CR4 not CR5. At the moment I don't want to make him stronger.
My thought is to add 3 apostles (sans armor and armed with daggers) to the encounter. They'd be fanatics who would flee if Zandalus goes down.
I agree that if the PC's fight their way to Zandalus it would be a grind, especially with the Tatterman showing up right after they defeat Zandalus.
Can he use lullaby from that range? That would be interesting and spooky.
He sure can.
From the bed in F3 to the farthest wall in F2, that's 125 fts.
With a 10ft. radius burst, it makes getting close to the oneirogen a bit more threatening. It's just that the line of sight is not very large for Zandalus from his room. It will only work if the players charge at the oneirogens.
Lullaby
School enchantment (compulsion) [mind-affecting]; Level bard 0, psychic 0
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
EFFECT
Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area living creatures within a 10-ft.-radius burst
Duration concentration + 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw Will negates; Spell Resistance yes
DESCRIPTION
Any creature within the area that fails a Will save becomes drowsy and inattentive, taking a -5 penalty on Perception checks and a -2 penalty on Will saves against sleep effects while the lullaby is in effect. Lullaby lasts for as long as the caster concentrates, plus up to 1 round per caster level thereafter.
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The way I see it, fighting Zandalus ISN'T the real boss fight, he's just a bait and switch warmup. He doesn't need to be tough, because it leads almost immediately into the fight against the Tatterman, with the group having no warning, and no time to prepare or heal. In fact, having him so weak might clue in some canny players to this not being the end.
If I swapped out Zandalus's expert levels for psychic I don't think it would increase his CR.
In this case, swapping out his Expert class levels won't change his overall CR - if he had nothing btu NPC class levels, his CR would be a point lower than normal.
A creature that possesses class levels, but does not have any racial Hit Dice, is factored in as a creature with a CR equal to its class levels –1. A creature that only possesses non-player class levels (such as a warrior or adept) is factored in as a creature with a CR equal to its class levels –2.
Hmm. That would mean a creature with 19 levels of commoner and 1 level of wizard would be CR-1 instead of CR-2. I think I'd calculate it differently than the PRD does.
The cultists have proved to be poor at damaging the PCs, so adding them would just slow my party down. Either that or just swap out his dead expert levels, which are flavorful but pointless.
I agree Zandalus isn't the main boss fight but I'd like him to last longer than 2 rounds. At 3rd level my party would make mince meat of him assuming he passes his saves for slumber hex and colorspray.
Both of my parties mowed through Zandalus. IMO he's just the red herring before the Tatterman shows up anyway.
The tatterman was a very hard fight for both of my groups, especially after his fear aura send half of the party running. I don´t see the need to enhance the zandalus fight.
That's a good point. How difficult was the tatterman fight? He's got two fear effects and decent melee and spellcasting going for him, plus the whole shadow walk thing. And regen + fakeout death.
Did your parties have trouble with him?
His difficulty largely depends on how many people fail their saves vs frightful presence and get basically removed from the fight. If everyone succeeds, it's an easy 4v1. If almost everyone fails, it's an overwhelming 1v1.
I wasn't a fan of that randomness, so for my Tatterman fight, I removed the frightful presence and replaced his sorcerer levels with swashbuckler. He wound up being a little too strong, with the party only winning due to a massive crit from the barbarian's greataxe.
Both of my parties had a rough time with the Tatterman. The shadow walk ability gave the first party fits. Also, they did not figure out that he was vulnerable to silver, they luckily did excellent against the fear abilities.
The fear abilitites took out 50% of the second group, but luckily they tried sliver early on and were able to hold on long enough for the fear-affected to return to save the day.
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Just to point out - the feign death was particularly awesome at my table. I convinced the group the combat had ended, and they started healing up, while someone unwisely poked at the Tatterman's 'body'...the Tatterman then promptly restarted combat by gutting the unwise person. Best slasher movie moment in a game ever.
Also, as a bonus treat - note that there are a few other critters in later books with the Nightmare Creature template...
Welp!
My Zandalus got pretty much defeated in round 1.
The Wizard had highest initiative, cast Blindness, Zandalus fails the save = Zandalus defeated.
Anyway, Bag Lady was tough and the oneirogens almost killed two party members. I guess they can have an easy win sometimes :P