1st character - Trip Summoner / Eidolon


Advice


Looking for feedback on a first character. Only started playing RPG's a month or so ago, have played an NPC for a few sessions and next session my character gets introduced.

Level 9 - anything but 3rd party. Full shopping (kind of the hardest part) other than anything over 25% wealth (46k)

Been struggling with going with a buddy/trip eidolon build - SEEMS like it should work, can get to 20 CMB or so and can increase that to probably 24ish with some more items.

Most likely add Tandem trip feat at next opportunity.

Note: DM didn't seem like a fan of the mass summons and strongly recommended an archetype that removed the SLA. Ended with Spirit summoner, earth elemental theme.

The alternative is just go with a standard quad/pounce melee build.

Summoner Trip Build:

Elin'Terliap Dekat
Male half-elf summoner (spirit summoner) 9 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 123, Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide 54)
CG Medium humanoid (elf, human)
Init +5; Senses low-light vision; Perception +7
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Defense
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AC 24, touch 15, flat-footed 21 (+7 armor, +2 deflection, +3 Dex, +2 shield; +2 deflection vs. evil)
hp 89 (9d8+27)
Fort +10, Ref +10, Will +11; +2 vs. enchantments; +2 resistance vs. evil
Defensive Abilities shield ally; DR 2/adamantine; Immune sleep
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee +2 horsechopper +12/+7 (1d10+8/×3) or
. . cold iron horsechopper +10/+5 (1d10+6/×3) or
. . horsechopper +10/+5 (1d10+6/×3) or
. . silver dagger +10/+5 (1d4+3/19-20) or
. . spiked gauntlet +10/+5 (1d4+4)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft. (10 ft. with +2 horsechopper, 10 ft. with cold iron horsechopper, 10 ft. with horsechopper)
Summoner (Spirit Summoner) Spells Known (CL 9th; concentration +12)
. . 3rd (4/day)—dimension door, evolution surge[APG] (DC 16), heroism, greater invisibility
. . 2nd (5/day)—barkskin, lesser evolution surge[APG] (DC 15), haste, summon eidolon[APG]
. . 1st (6/day)—enlarge person (DC 14), mage armor, protection from evil, reduce person (DC 14), shield
. . 0 (at will)—detect magic, guidance, light, mage hand, message, open/close (DC 13)
. . S spirit magic spell; Spirit Stone Wandering Spirit
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Statistics
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Str 18, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 16
Base Atk +6; CMB +10 (+19 trip); CMD 25 (29 vs. bull rush, 31 vs. trip)
Feats Combat Reflexes, Dirty Fighting, Improved Trip, Paired Opportunists[APG], Resilient Eidolon[UM], Slow Faller[ACG]
Traits heirloom weapon (maneuver), reactionary
Skills Acrobatics +8, Bluff +6, Fly +9, Knowledge (arcana) +7, Knowledge (planes) +6, Linguistics +6, Perception +7, Ride +6, Sense Motive +2, Spellcraft +6, Survival +1 (+3 to avoid becoming lost), Use Magic Device +15; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception
Languages Azlanti, Draconic, Elven, Erutaki, Terran
SQ arcane training[APG], body of earth, bond senses (9 rounds/day), eidolon (named Deka the Trip Eidolon), elf blood, life link, shaman hexes (slumber[APG], stone stability), spirit (), touch of acid

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Special Abilities
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Arcane Training +1 CL for spell trigger/completion items for favored class, or use them as if 1st level.
Body of Earth (4d6 piercing damage, 3/day, DC 15) (Su) As a standard action every d4 rds, dam foes in a 10-foot burst (Ref half).
Bond Senses (9 rounds/day) (Su) As a standard action, you can share Eidolon's senses while on same plane.
Combat Reflexes (4 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Damage Reduction (2/adamantine) You have Damage Reduction against all except Adamantine attacks.
Dirty Fighting Forgo flanking bonus to make combat maneuver not provoke attack of op.
Eidolon Can summon a powerful aspect of an outsider.
Elf Blood Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race.
Elven Immunities - Sleep You are immune to magic sleep effects.
Improved Trip You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when tripping.
Life Link (Su) Damage that dismisses Eidolon can be taken by you. It weakens if not in 100 ft.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in dim light, distinguishing color and detail.
Paired Opportunists +4 to hit for AoOs if you and adj ally with this feat both threaten the target.
Resilient Eidolon When you are knocked unconscious, fall asleep, or are killed, your eidolon remains with you
Shield Ally (Ex) +2 AC and save when within eidolon's reach.
Slow Faller 10' Treat a fall as shorter than normal if within arm's reach of a wall.
Slumber (9 rounds, DC 16) (Su) Foe in 30 ft falls asleep for duration, or until damaged or roused by ally (Will neg).
Stone Stability (Ex) +4 CMD vs. bull rush or trip while standing on the ground.
Touch of Acid (6/day) (Su) As a standard action, melee touch deals acid damage.

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Deka the Trip Eidolon CR –
Male quadruped
CG Large outsider
Init +3; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +7
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Defense
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AC 26, touch 12, flat-footed 23 (+3 Dex, +14 natural, -1 size; +2 deflection vs. evil)
hp 73 (7d10+29)
Fort +13, Ref +12, Will +6 (+4 morale bonus vs. enchantment effects); +2 resistance vs. evil
Defensive Abilities evasion; DR 5/adamantine
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Offense
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Speed 40 ft.
Melee (M) cold iron heavy mace +9/+4 (1d8+8) or
. . bite +16 (1d8+9), bite +16 (1d8+9), 2 claws +16 (1d6+9)
Ranged (M) heavy crossbow +0 (1d10/19-20)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft. (10 ft. with bite)
Special Attacks pounce
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Statistics
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Str 26, Dex 16, Con 18, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 11
Base Atk +7; CMB +18 (+20 trip); CMD 29 (31 vs. trip)
Feats Combat Reflexes, Dirty Fighting, Improved Trip, Paired Opportunists[APG]
Skills Acrobatics +9 (+13 to jump), Bluff +6, Escape Artist +4, Fly +6, Linguistics -1, Perception +7, Sense Motive +4, Stealth +3, Use Magic Device +6
Languages Erutaki, Terran
SQ devotion

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Special Abilities
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Combat Reflexes (4 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Damage Reduction (5/adamantine) You have Damage Reduction against all except Adamantine attacks.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Devotion +4 (Ex) +4 morale bonus on Will saves vs. enchantment effects.
Dirty Fighting Forgo flanking bonus to make combat maneuver not provoke attack of op.
Evasion (Ex) No damage on successful reflex save.
Improved Trip You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when tripping.
Paired Opportunists +4 to hit for AoOs if you and adj ally with this feat both threaten the target.
Pounce (Ex) You can make a full attack as part of a charge.
Trip (Ex) You can make a trip attempt on a successful attack.

Hero Lab and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
Pathfinder® and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Inc.®, and are used under license.

More standard Quad/Pounce melee build. Still not sure what I'll do with the summoner other than buff and maybe toss some arrows. Will also probably sit back and hex - either slumber/ward/evil eye.

Summoner Melee Build:

Elin'Terliap Dekat Basic
Male half-elf summoner (spirit summoner) 9 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 123, Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide 54)
CG Medium humanoid (elf, human)
Init +6; Senses low-light vision; Perception +10
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Defense
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AC 23, touch 14, flat-footed 20 (+7 armor, +1 deflection, +3 Dex, +2 shield; +2 deflection vs. evil)
hp 89 (9d8+27)
Fort +8, Ref +9, Will +10; +2 vs. enchantments; +2 resistance vs. evil
Defensive Abilities shield ally; Immune sleep
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft. (20 ft. in armor)
Ranged +1 adaptive greenwood composite longbow +11/+6 (1d8+4/×3)
Special Attacks channel positive energy 4/day (DC 17, 5d6)
Summoner (Spirit Summoner) Spells Known (CL 9th; concentration +12)
. . 3rd (4/day)—dimension door, evolution surge[APG] (DC 16), heroism, greater invisibility
. . 2nd (5/day)—barkskin, create pit[APG] (DC 15), lesser evolution surge[APG] (DC 15), haste, see invisibility, summon eidolon[APG]
. . 1st (6/day)—endure elements, enlarge person (DC 14), feather fall, mage armor, protection from evil, reduce person (DC 14), shield
. . 0 (at will)—detect magic, guidance, light, mage hand, message, open/close (DC 13)
. . S spirit magic spell; Spirit Life Wandering Spirit
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Statistics
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Str 16, Dex 18, Con 16, Int 16, Wis 12, Cha 16
Base Atk +6; CMB +9; CMD 24
Feats Ability Focus (slumber), Craft Wondrous Item, Expanded Arcana[APG], Improved Spell Sharing[ACG], Resilient Eidolon[UM]
Traits indomitable faith, reactionary
Skills Acrobatics +6 (+2 to jump), Fly +10, Handle Animal +7, Heal +5, Knowledge (arcana) +8, Knowledge (planes) +7, Knowledge (religion) +7, Linguistics +7, Perception +10, Ride +6, Sense Motive +2, Spellcraft +15, Use Magic Device +15; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception
Languages Abyssal, Draconic, Elven, Erutaki, Gnome, Osiriani
SQ bond senses (9 rounds/day), eidolon (named Deka the Melee Eidolon), elf blood, healer's touch, life link, shaman hexes (evil eye, slumber[APG]), spirit ()

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Special Abilities
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Bond Senses (9 rounds/day) (Su) As a standard action, you can share Eidolon's senses while on same plane.
Eidolon Can summon a powerful aspect of an outsider.
Elf Blood Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race.
Elven Immunities - Sleep You are immune to magic sleep effects.
Evil Eye -4 (4 rounds, DC 15) (Su) Foe in 30 ft takes penalty to your choice of AC, attacks, saves, ability or skill checks (Will part).
Healer's Touch (Su) As a standard action, move up to half speed & touch up to 6 people to auto-stabilize them.
Improved Spell Sharing Divide share spell dur evenly between you and companion. Can move apart w/o ending effect.
Life Link (Su) Damage that dismisses Eidolon can be taken by you. It weakens if not in 100 ft.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in dim light, distinguishing color and detail.
Resilient Eidolon When you are knocked unconscious, fall asleep, or are killed, your eidolon remains with you
Shaman/Summoner Channel Positive Energy 5d6 (4/day, DC 17) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.
Shield Ally (Ex) +2 AC and save when within eidolon's reach.
Slumber (9 rounds, DC 19) (Su) Foe in 30 ft falls asleep for duration, or until damaged or roused by ally (Will neg).

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Deka the Melee Eidolon CR –
Male quadruped
CG Large outsider
Init +3; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +7
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 22, touch 12, flat-footed 19 (+3 Dex, +10 natural, -1 size; +2 deflection vs. evil)
hp 69 (7d10+29); fast healing 1
Fort +12, Ref +11, Will +5 (+4 morale bonus vs. enchantment effects); +2 resistance vs. evil
Defensive Abilities evasion; SR 20
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Offense
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Speed 40 ft.
Melee bite +12 (1d8+12 plus 1d6 acid), 2 claws +12 (2d6+12 plus 1d6 acid), 2 claws +12 (2d6+12 plus 1d6 acid)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks pounce
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Statistics
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Str 26, Dex 16, Con 18, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 11
Base Atk +7; CMB +14; CMD 29
Feats Improved Natural Attack (claw), Improved Spell Sharing[ACG], Power Attack
Skills Acrobatics +9 (+13 to jump), Escape Artist +4, Fly +8, Linguistics -1, Perception +7, Sense Motive +4, Stealth +3, Use Magic Device +15; Racial Modifiers +8 Use Magic Device
Languages Erutaki, Terran
SQ devotion

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Special Abilities
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Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Devotion +4 (Ex) +4 morale bonus on Will saves vs. enchantment effects.
Evasion (Ex) No damage on successful reflex save.
Fast Healing 1 (Ex) Heal damage every round unless you are killed.
Improved Spell Sharing Divide share spell dur evenly between you and companion. Can move apart w/o ending effect.
Pounce (Ex) You can make a full attack as part of a charge.
Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Spell Resistance (20) You have Spell Resistance.

Hero Lab and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
Pathfinder® and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Inc.®, and are used under license.


Trip based builds don't usually do very well. Too many things are immune to it or have big bonuses against it. You can make a somewhat decent grapple build with an eidolon though. Not everyone notices, but the grab evolution also gives a flat +4 to grapple checks, which is a big help.


Appreciate it. Although a bummer. Not a big fan of grappling, seems like even more effort

Looking at the list of CR 8-12 creatures/stats it looks like CMD can get to the 50's for bosses - Low 30's will succeed on average. We will be able to start some rounds at 30+ (ideal, fully buffed)

3+ trip attempts per round - some at auto success.
Plenty of AoO, good AoO generation
Reach (with its own set of issues)

Summoner – 90 hp, 23 AC, DR2, +11/+6 1d10+7 melee, 10’ Reach, no Summon SLA
-Trip CMB up to 22, 26 when flanking – 1 or 2 melee attacks, does not provoke AoO
-+2 with heroism, +1 with enlarge person, at level 10 get greater trip -(+2 and AoO on trip) - So I can hypothetically get to 25 (29 w/flanking)

Eidolon – 65 hp, AC 26, DR5, 2x Bite +16,1d8+10, 2x Claw +16,1d6+10, Bite 10’ Reach
-Eidolon trip CMB to 22, 26 when flanking – trip on 2 bite attacks, -does not provoke AoO
Buff to 29

AoO
Both have 4+ AoO a round
Both have Reach 10’
Both have Paired opportunists -if both threaten, +4 Atk on AoO, if one of pair gets AoO, both can attempt

Overall
Summoner is weaker – 4 feats towards trip, going melee, no summon SLA or summon buffs
Eidolon is weaker – 4 feats towards trip, 1/3 evolutions towards trip, bad saves
Together , viable?


CRB Combat wrote:
If the target has more than two legs, add +2 to the DC of the combat maneuver attack roll for each additional leg it has. Some creatures—such as oozes, creatures without legs, and flying creatures—cannot be tripped.

And that's why tripping tends to get looked down on. Flying creatures can get super common and many non-humanoids have 4+ legs or no legs at all.

But if you think you'll still enjoy doing the tripping, when you can do the tripping, then go for it. You'll just have to get used to the idea of not always getting to do the thing you built your character for.


To make the most of Dirty Fighting you want to be flanking with your eidolon whereas to make Paired Opportunist work you need to be adjacent. I'd probably drop Paired Opportunist in favour of something like Fury's Fall if you want to keep the trip focus or something else for greater versatility. Exercise caution with regards to building too much around a niche. I'd also consider dropping the Slow Faller (too situational for my taste) feat and take a ring of Feather Falling for 2200gp.


if we're talking about falling damage items, I usually prefer the boots of the cat. Only 1000g and they don't take up a valuable ring slot.


Ha, my bad.

I was getting sick of buying things for Hero Lab - used slow faller to simulate getting Fury's Fall and then gave the CMB in adjustments.

True, and then there is just the complexity of reach, more AoO, etc.

I'm leaning towards the melee Eidolon build instead, although still at a bit of loss with the summoner. Will make a good buff bot/crafter, but might be it.

Other than giving my buddy wings, or shooting them with a bow/spell, any other preferred methods of taking out non-magical or SR casters?


If you do go down the trip rout I think Greater Trip would be a better option than Paired Opportunist. Out of curiosity do you know much about what the other players are using? You are allowed to depend on them at times so you don't need to worry about dealing with every situation.

Since your archetype grants you the hex class feature a useful feat which could offer a considerable amount of flexibility is the [https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/ritual-hex/]Ritual Hex feat[/url] partucularly since you have a only a limited number of hexes. For 10,000gp you can buy the [https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/m-p/mask-of-a-thousand-tomes/]Mask of a Thousand Tomes[/url] granting +10 competence bonus on all knowledge checks which at your level guarantees you will hit the DC for a successful ritual.

With this in mind I would not take the Witch Hex option from the selection of Shaman hexes. This way you can select one of the regular shaman hexes or the Witch Hex shaman hex to open up the list of all witch hexes when you perform the ritual. Slumber is a great hex but there's plenty of creatures that are immune to it and GMs have been known to get annoyed if it's used too much so you'd benefit being able to change it from time to time.

I'd probably trade Witch Hex: Slumber for Misfortune and Craft Wondrous Item for Ritual Hex (when you want to craft wondrous items use the Ritual Hex to get the Fetish hex) and Ability Focus: Slumber for Ability Focus: Misfortune or anything else.

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