Paladin Build Guidance (Too many options! lol)


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So... instead of a million options, I will just put forth a single suggestion- If you are looking for good melee weapons, reach weapons are often the best choice.

They allow you to become a circle of pain that punishes any enemy that tries to approach your party members. If you grab the lunge feat, you can attack a target 20' away (10' reach +5' step +5' lunge), which is a bit like having pounce (so you can get in a lot of full attacks).

Reach builds also require relatively few feats- power attack+combat reflexes for the basic build, add on lunge later on for the distance (it also lets you attack from far enough away so enemies can't 5' step next to you).

Other options like trip... are present, but not necessary. Paladins already have a ton of great things (high single target damage, great tank-iness, various healing options, etc), so just getting a little better at hitting things should be enough in most circumstances.


Trevor86 wrote:
Slim Jim wrote:
Trevor86 wrote:
One quick thing, wasnt berserker of the society restricted to barbarians?
It is in PFS. --But if your GM permits any society feats in a non-PFS game (when being a member of the Pathfinder Society is requirement for them), he'll probably waive the class requirement as well.
Fair enough. Though, even if it is legal, do you feel that trait is worth it compared to things like dangerously curious, fate's favored, adopted > tusked and wayang spell hunter?
Considering that none of those others are Combat traits, there's no reason you can't mix and match four with Additional Traits. (BTW, Adopted can give you a "race" trait, but not a "racial alternative" trait. I.e., you can't get Toothy just because you were raised by half-orcs.)
Quote:

If we're taking extra rage anyway, considering we have the faitgue mercy, this trait sort of feels like a waste.

Accelerated Drinker, now, would be one you couldn't stack with BotS.

Well, then you're selecting Fatigue instead of one of the other choices that your allies might have use of more often.

Mainly though, it depends upon how much of a daily combat grind you're subjected to. In any event, the trait is cheaper than a second instance of Extra Rage.


Alright so it seems our GM/DM is a bit more er limited in their pool of Pathfinder related publications. He has agreed to mostly what I have presented but it does look like I'm better off making sure the character isn't cherry picked from over too many books. So as an example he's fine with the pitborn tiefling but it would likely be constrained to what is available in Blood Of Fiends, rather than taking stuff from Blood of Fiends & Advanced Races guide.

We're also not being given any starting traits (beyond what you get from class & race) so for me to get Dangerously Curious, I will have to dedicate a level later to the feat Additional Traits in order to take it. As for early levels I am still leaning towards
Lv 1-4 Paladin, Lv 5 Blood Rager.
Feats
Lv 1. Fey Foundling
Lv 3. Power Attack
Lv 5. Extra Rage and taking a Celestial Bloodline familiar.


As gently and diplomatically as possible, observe to your GM that the name of the feat "Additional Traits" implies that you're normally getting some to start with. (And not racial traits, because those are automatic.)

And take Bloodrager at 1st-level if you're not taking Greater Mercy at 3rd. (No reason not to be enjoying rage for four more levels. In fact, Power Attack can wait awhile, too. Take Greater Mercy at 5th and delay PA until 7th.

(BTW, if a LoH-spamming damage sponge with more available hitpoints than most dwarf barbarians dare dream about ever needs Fast Healing +1 from a familiar, your GM is riding you guys to the ragged edge.)


Slim Jim wrote:
As gently and diplomatically as possible, observe to your GM that the name of the feat "Additional Traits" implies that you're normally getting some to start with. (And not racial traits, because those are automatic.)

Technically, traits were introduced in the Advanced Player’s Guide and suggest allowing players to begin with two to “set them apart from the NPCs”. Ultimately, it is up to the GM, as per the text since it is outside the Core book.


Well, OK. --But APG came out eight years ago. Most players are very used to them by now.

Silver Crusade

Slim Jim wrote:

As gently and diplomatically as possible, observe to your GM that the name of the feat "Additional Traits" implies that you're normally getting some to start with. (And not racial traits, because those are automatic.)

And take Bloodrager at 1st-level if you're not taking Greater Mercy at 3rd. (No reason not to be enjoying rage for four more levels. In fact, Power Attack can wait awhile, too. Take Greater Mercy at 5th and delay PA until 7th.

(BTW, if a LoH-spamming damage sponge with more available hitpoints than most dwarf barbarians dare dream about ever needs Fast Healing +1 from a familiar, your GM is riding you guys to the ragged edge.)

I don't think it's a good idea to antagonize the DM, since he already ruled this out. I'd take my 42-ish point buy stat rolled character and call it a day here. We already have like multiple bonus feats worth of toughness/skill points/saves/ac due to the super OP stat array.

That aside, i don't think power attack at level 7 is a good idea either, especially if you delay it at lest 2 levels for greater mercy. That feat is useful for exactly one level, after which we get free action sanctuaries on all our LoH's. I know the targeted mercy is extremely undervalued by many, but it will waste so many actions of the enemy given some moderately competent tactics that it outvalues the 5.5 hp greater mercy would give every time, and then you add whatever outher mercies have on top of this effct (regeneration, ability damage, dispelling etc). And since the character is a tiefling feywild foundling arming to take a celestial familiar, he really already is ok on the self healing front.


Well we got through our first game and I got one turn dropped by a grizzlybear. We still ended up winning but it was lots of direwolves and grizzlies. After that when we were confronted by Wights it was a walk in the park. My character even had to jokingly comment "I've been mauled by a grizzly. You guys are nothing." It appears we're on the low end of reward/money as of this time but I don't know if that will change.

I'm prepping for the next few levels when I will be taking the BloodRager dip and I'm still kind of conflicted over to take regular Bloodrager or Urban.


Wait, what? GRIZZLY BEAR(CR 4)? Dire wolves and wights (each CR 3)? I thought you were starting at level 1?

Silver Crusade

Angdril wrote:

Well we got through our first game and I got one turn dropped by a grizzlybear. We still ended up winning but it was lots of direwolves and grizzlies. After that when we were confronted by Wights it was a walk in the park. My character even had to jokingly comment "I've been mauled by a grizzly. You guys are nothing." It appears we're on the low end of reward/money as of this time but I don't know if that will change.

I'm prepping for the next few levels when I will be taking the BloodRager dip and I'm still kind of conflicted over to take regular Bloodrager or Urban.

Technically, urban is better. Think of it this way: Both increase your offense by the same amount. However, Urban increases your defenses (ac and touch ac) in addition to your lowest save, whereas normal bloodrager lowers your defenses and increases a save that should already be good (high base save + your high stats in general).

If you combined urban bloodrager with that dedication Id rager instead of the familiar you'd actually get both saves increased during the rage for no downside.

-2 AC can be a large downside, and 2 hp per level doesn't compensate for this effective 4 ac difference between the two rages (-2 vs +2), since that tends to be only one incoming hit regardless of your level. but a 4 ac bonus can turn multiple otherwise hits into misses. Also, it's probably been mentioned before but a mithril fullplate allows a max dex bonus of +3 to enable to ac benefit of urban bloodrager.


Deathless: We were actually level 2 but yea.
Trevor: Is there a confirmation you can do "Urban: Id Rager"? And the joke about the Mithrill full plate is I'm gonna have to get enough money for it lol. Right now we're not making much in game funds.


Angdril wrote:

Deathless: We were actually level 2 but yea.

Trevor: Is there a confirmation you can do "Urban: Id Rager"? And the joke about the Mithrill full plate is I'm gonna have to get enough money for it lol. Right now we're not making much in game funds.

As far as I can tell, those two archetypes do not conflict, at all. It should be good to go.

Silver Crusade

Angdril wrote:

Deathless: We were actually level 2 but yea.

Trevor: Is there a confirmation you can do "Urban: Id Rager"? And the joke about the Mithrill full plate is I'm gonna have to get enough money for it lol. Right now we're not making much in game funds.

Look at archives of nethys under bloodrager achetypes. Id rager is a bloodrager archetype that costs you the bloodrager bloodline and urban bloodrager replaces the normal rage.

SO long as the archetypes do not trade out the same thing, they can stack. And they do not see to do this.


So we are finally getting around to doing this game again (been on break for months). And come to discover that the GM doesn't want me dipping intno Bloodrager/Id Rager so all that planning went out the window. Oh well..

Silver Crusade

Angdril wrote:
So we are finally getting around to doing this game again (been on break for months). And come to discover that the GM doesn't want me dipping intno Bloodrager/Id Rager so all that planning went out the window. Oh well..

Paladin x falcata swashbuckler 1 is also quite good.

Silver Crusade

@Angdril: Your GM seems to lean heavily towards Core Rules and simpler builds with less exotic stuff. Your simplest & most effective combat option is to wield a two handed reach weapon with high strength. Lemeres explains the reasons, above, quite well. The only must-have feat tax is Power Attack, usually by 3rd or 5th level. There's a lot of table variation in quantity of AoOs provoked by monsters. If you discover, during play, that you are missing out on a lot of AoOs then also pick up the Combat Reflexes feat, which is especially useful when you lose initiative.

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