a good sorcerer bloodline?


Advice


And is taking bloodline mutation alright as well? I am trying to make a fireball cannon. If that makes any sense. And while i have read the build guides for sorcerer and watcher the videos to me most of them seem alright. But i might just go with the basic bloodline.
Your thoughts?


For a blaster, crossblooded of draconic and orc is usually recommended. There’s also that havok bloodline thing, but that’s not PFS legal.


Cross-blooded Draconic and Elemental has some good options as well, for a more utility cross-blooded mix, Sylvan and Arcane makes an interesting mix, get a familiar and an animal companion, but as a single line, really need to look at what spell mix you want and what theme fits the best, Red or Gold Dragon blood line for fire, Arcane if you want a familiar or bonded weapon, Abyssal or Infernal would fit a Tiefling, Celestial for an Aasamir. If your running with Rangers/Druids, Fey or Sylvan(mutated fey) might be a good theme fit for an elf or gnome.


Solar is great for blasting and adds light themed healing if you're looking for Good alignment flavor. Searing Light as a 1st level spell is awesome.


I can't agree on crossblooded. You lose spells known, it puts you another 1/2 spell level behind, the -2 on will saves is a pain when you probably can't spare a decent wisdom. If you want to blast then pick an element (elemental or draconic) or go orc, but not both.

Grand Lodge

The problem with blaster sorcerer is the full round casting with metamagic feats.
Thats why admixture wizards with af 1 level dip of crosblooded sorcerer or bloodrd arcanist are more populare.


avr wrote:
I can't agree on crossblooded. You lose spells known, it puts you another 1/2 spell level behind, the -2 on will saves is a pain when you probably can't spare a decent wisdom. If you want to blast then pick an element (elemental or draconic) or go orc, but not both.

Human favored class bonus + Iron Will => Problem solved.

*Khan* wrote:

The problem with blaster sorcerer is the full round casting with metamagic feats.

Thats why admixture wizards with af 1 level dip of crosblooded sorcerer or bloodrd arcanist are more populare.

That's, IMHO, because people do not realize that the metamagic actualy do not make up for everything one less spellcaster level causes.

With one less level, a wizard lose absolutely ALL the advantages he could have on a sorcerer: while he cannot access to a new spell level earlier anymore, he does not make up for the lesser amount of spell per day and even aggravate the gap between him and a sorcerer on the topic.
Plus, each spell cast has now one less of those empowered damage dice compared to a pure sorcerer..

Cumulated to the fact that spontaneous casting is a lot more adapted to blasting than prepared spellcasting, you end to a situation where, if you make the calculations, you'll see a pure sorcerer deals more damage than this crossbloadmixture wizard at almost every level, from 1 to 20.

(PS: dipping on a pure spellcasting class is generaly a trap, and there is very very very very few exception to this... if any)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Bloodline mutations are excellent for any direct-damage spells. Blood Havoc in particular is a straight upgrade over any 1st level bloodline ability, and the other two are significantly better than any bloodline feats that you can get access to. It's well worth picking up all of them.

Crossblooded is overkill in my view. It gets extreme power, but the loss of spells known hurts quite severely. With the release of the bloodline mutations, I feel crossblooded has become much less attractive since the relative gap with single bloodline sorcerers has closed somewhat. If you want raw power at any price it's still a very attractive damage increase, but if you actually care about versatility and flexibility it's looking really suspect these days. For me, the clincher is that crossblooded is incompatible with the Primal Elemental bloodline, which is a significantly better bloodline than either orc or draconic. So I recommend Primal Elemental as your bloodline of choice.

Moonheart wrote:
Human favored class bonus + Iron Will => Problem solved.

Blasters are pretty feat-starved, so stopping for Iron Will is going to mean you're passing up on something else like Greater Spell Penetration. If you're sacrificing valuable feats to compensate for it, Crossblooded isn't worth your time. This is especially true at level 15+, where most of those feats will have their effects doubled by Spell Perfection.

Human Sorcerer FCB doesn't really alleviate the Crossblooded spells known penalty. The penalty is most severe at your highest spell level, and the Human FCB can only be used to learn spells one level below the highest you can cast. So it really doesn't do much to alleviate the problem. Human Sorcerer FCB is pretty much presumed on any optimized Sorcerer build anyways, so you're still losing spells over the "standard" Sorcerer build.

Moonheart wrote:
With one less level, a wizard lose absolutely ALL the advantages he could have on a sorcerer

Completely untrue; Wizards still have access to their broad prepared casting. A lot of people don't care for it (in which case, go ahead and play a Sorcerer or Arcanist) but for those who do and are willing to go to the effort of making full use of it prepared casting is incredibly powerful. Wizards can can even pick up limited spontaneous casting with the Greater Spell Specialization feat, which is a great pick for a blaster.

However, this build has fallen behind since the release of bloodline mutations. Bloodline mutations affect only your sorcerer spellcasting, and thus a multiclass character cannot benefit. This has catapulted single-class Sorcerer ahead of the 1-level dip Sorcerers.


I love the Psychic Bloodline. It allows you to wear heavy armor if you wish to multi-class to gain proficiency/or spend the feats doing so. A 3 level Paladin dip will grant you all armor and martial proficiency, boosted Charisma saves, and immunity to fear. Fear is a common descriptor known to interrupt psychic casting. But the Psychic Bloodline essentially does away with your worry for arcane failure chance. Perhaps choosing a Paladin archetype to swap out smite, since you probably won't be in melee combat all that much anyways.

Though it's not really an optimized blasting build.


Dasrak wrote:
Wizards still have access to their broad prepared casting. A lot of people don't care for it (in which case, go ahead and play a Sorcerer or Arcanist) but for those who do and are willing to go to the effort of making full use of it prepared casting is incredibly powerful.

Off topic, but an arcanist is also a prepared caster. And it's pretty darn good at it, especially with the quick study exploit, which is amazing.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Moonheart wrote:
Human favored class bonus + Iron Will => Problem solved.

Actually, taking the 'Shadowhunter' alt racial trait as a Human gives you Iron will as a bonus feat (among other things, it also eats up your human bonus feat). Snapping up bloodline familiar and selecting Hedgehog (or both) can help as well.

As for losing one spell known per level, it isn't so bad. You can still use your higher level slots to cast lower level spells, and if what you really want to do is blast, it really doesn't matter after 6th level if you pick up Intensified spell (Or blood intensity). And if you REALLY need a spell of a certain level, get a page of spell knowledge.


You probably aren't getting a bloodline familiar as a crossblooded sorcerer blaster. You have other uses for your 1st level bloodline power (see: bloodline mutations) and you don't want to delay your bloodline spells a level either.

Using higher level spell slots to cast lower level spells because you don't know any spells of your highest spell level is what I call a waste. Also boring.

As for pages of spell knowledge, those are generally too expensive to use for your highest level spell slots. You use them for 1st level spells, maybe 2nd later on, or they're plot items. e.g. At character level 4, a 2nd level page costs 2/3 of expected WBL, at 6 a 3rd costs 56%, at 8 a 4th costs 49%... It tracks down but not fast enough.


Probably. Wasteful/Boring. Too expensive. Yet, aside from personal preference, still an option, and (arguably) a viable option. Not every option is ideal, or optimal, but serviceable none-the-less. If the option doesn’t work for your build, don’t use it.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

You can always just choose to stock up on scrolls instead of a page of spell knowledge. For spells that don't call for a saving throw scrolls are often perfectly fine alternatives, and you need to expend at least 22 scrolls before the page of spell knowledge is the more cost-effective.


If you worry about painting yourself into a corner too much, collecting a few Ampoules of False Blood will at least make other Bloodline Powers available. Some of those are pretty nifty.


Dasrak wrote:
You can always just choose to stock up on scrolls instead of a page of spell knowledge. For spells that don't call for a saving throw scrolls are often perfectly fine alternatives, and you need to expend at least 22 scrolls before the page of spell knowledge is the more cost-effective.

Indeed! Good advise. I once had a Crossblooded sorcerer that carried around a bunch of scrolls similar to a wizard's spellbook. The GM was even nice enough to let me use the Razmiran Priest archetype (I had a bloodline that conflicted with the 3rd and 9th level powers) so that I was also able to fill a bit of the healer/divine utility role. That was back before the Arcanist class created.


VRMH wrote:
If you worry about painting yourself into a corner too much, collecting a few Ampoules of False Blood will at least make other Bloodline Powers available. Some of those are pretty nifty.

There is also the Amulet of the Blooded.


Question: For a blaster build focusing on fire, is it possible to get Cross-blooded Orc/Draconic(Red Dragon) at lvl 1 and take Blood Havoc (I know not technically PFS legal, but yeah) for a total of +3dmg per dmg die on Fire, and +2dmg per dmg die on everything else, and lvls 2-20 go Blood Arcanist archetype and take the Elemental(Fire) Bloodline, then gain Elemental Ray at lvl 2, Blood Intensity at lvl 4, then Elemental Blast at lvl 10, and Elemental Movement at lvl 16?

So essentially, Orc/Drac(Fire) Cross-blooded Sorc1/Blood Arcanist(Elemental-Fire)19

If so, I think that's a pretty gnarly build for a Fire-based blaster.


Does anyone have a good answer for this? Is this kosher?


They shouldn't stack.

Cross-Blooded wrote:
Bloodline Powers: At 1st, 3rd, 9th, 15th, and 20th levels, a crossblooded sorcerer gains one of the two new bloodline powers available to her at that level. She may instead select a lower-level bloodline power she did not choose in place of one of these higher-level powers.
Bloodline Mutations wrote:
Whenever a bloodrager or a sorcerer gains a new bloodline power, she can swap her bloodline power for a bloodline mutation whose prerequisites she meets.
ACG wrote:
A character can take more than one archetype and garner additional alternate class features, but none of the alternate class features can replace or alter the same class feature from the base class as the other alternate feature. For example, a warpriest could not be both a champion of fate and a disenchanter, because both archetypes replace the channel energy class feature with something else.

Note that those levels are the only levels you gain bloodline powers.


Melkiador wrote:

They shouldn't stack.

Cross-Blooded wrote:
Bloodline Powers: At 1st, 3rd, 9th, 15th, and 20th levels, a crossblooded sorcerer gains one of the two new bloodline powers available to her at that level. She may instead select a lower-level bloodline power she did not choose in place of one of these higher-level powers.
Bloodline Mutations wrote:
Whenever a bloodrager or a sorcerer gains a new bloodline power, she can swap her bloodline power for a bloodline mutation whose prerequisites she meets.
ACG wrote:
A character can take more than one archetype and garner additional alternate class features, but none of the alternate class features can replace or alter the same class feature from the base class as the other alternate feature. For example, a warpriest could not be both a champion of fate and a disenchanter, because both archetypes replace the channel energy class feature with something else.
Note that those levels are the only levels you gain bloodline powers.

Nothing you linked there would actually prohibit someone from doing that build though.

In fact, the Blood Arcanist archetype covers multiple bloodlines from multiple classes:

Blood Arcanist wrote:

Blood Arcanist

Though most arcanists possess only a rudimentary innate arcane gift, the blood arcanist has the full power of a bloodline to draw upon.

The blood arcanist is an archetype of the arcanist class.

Bloodline

A blood arcanist selects one bloodline from those available through the sorcerer bloodline class feature. The blood arcanist gains the bloodline arcana and bloodline powers of that bloodline, treating her arcanist level as her sorcerer level. The blood arcanist does not gain the class skill, bonus feats, or bonus spells from her bloodline.

If the blood arcanist takes levels in another class that grants a bloodline, the bloodlines must be the same type, even if that means that the bloodline of one of her classes must change. Subject to GM discretion, the blood arcanist can change her former bloodline to make them conform.

This ability replaces the arcanist exploits gained at 1st, 3rd, 9th, and 15th levels, as well as magical supremacy. A blood arcanist cannot select the bloodline development arcanist exploit.

I would argue that Orc, Draconic (Red), and Elemental (Fire), are highly fire-based bloodlines and are of the same type.

You could even get a pseudo 4th Bloodline with Eldritch Heritage later on. The reason I would gain those bloodline powers at 2, 4, 10 and 16 is because I already took 1 level in CB Sorcerer (I wouldn't actually be getting the bloodline powers from Orc/Drac) and the Elemental Bloodline powers would be coming from Blood Arcanist from lvls 2 thru 20. Would something like this work?

Human
Wayang Spellhunter (Burning Hands)/Magical Lineage (Burning Hands)

lvl1 Crossblooded Orc/Drac(Red) Sorcerer1 - Blood Havok, Feat: Spell Focus (Evocation), Human Bonus Feat: Spell Specialization (Burning Hands) Start the game with 3d4+9 Burning Hands
lvl2 Elemental(Fire) Bloodline Blood Arcanist1 - Elemental Ray
lvl3 Blood Arcanist2, Feat: Empower Spell, Empowered Burning Hands still takes up lvl1 spell slot, deals 5d4+15 (+50%)
lvl4 Blood Arcanist3, Blood Intensity
lvl5 Blood Arcanist4, Intensify Spell, Intensified Empowered Burning Hands lvl 2 spell slot 7d4+21 (+50%), Empowered Burning Hands lvl1 spell slot 5d4+15(+50%)
lvl6 Blood Arcanist5, Switch Spell Spec to Fireball, Arcane Exploit: Potent Magic
lvl7 Blood Arcanist6, Extra Arcane Exploit: Dimensional Slide
lvl8 Blood Arcanist7, Arcane Exploit: Metamixing
lvl9 Blood Arcanist8, Maximize Spell
lvl10 Blood Arcanist9, Elemental Blast
lvl11 Blood Arcanist10, Spell Penetration
lvl12 Blood Arcanist11, Arcane Exploit: Spell Resistance
lvl13 Blood Arcanist12, Greater Spell Focus (Evocation)
lvl14 Blood Arcanist13, Greater Exploit: Greater Spell Resistance
lvl15 Blood Arcanist14, Spell Perfection (Firesnake)
lvl16 Blood Arcanist15, Elemental Movement (30ft. movement increase)
lvl17 Blood Arcanist16, Greater Spell Penetration
lvl18 Blood Arcanist17, Arcane Exploit: Counterspell
lvl19 Blood Arcanist18, Extra Arcane Exploit: Dimensional Seal
lvl20 Blood Arcanist19, Greater Exploit: Greater Counterspell


The archetype alters bloodline powers. Bloodline mutations replace bloodline powers. They don’t stack for that reason. It’s the same as how you can’t take two different options that alter skills.

And your blood arcanist quote doesn’t really have anything to do with alternate feature stacking. It’s talking about multiple bloodlines from different sources. Like having a level of bloodrager and having a level of sorcerer.

Edit: But that does bring up a backdoor. You could take a level of crossblooded sorcerer and dip a level of compatible bloodrager to pick up the havok for its first level bloodline power.


Melkiador wrote:

The archetype alters bloodline powers. Bloodline mutations replace bloodline powers. They don’t stack for that reason. It’s the same as how you can’t take two different options that alter skills.

And your blood arcanist quote doesn’t really have anything to do with alternate feature stacking. It’s talking about multiple bloodlines from different sources. Like having a level of bloodrager and having a level of sorcerer.

Edit: But that does bring up a backdoor. You could take a level of crossblooded sorcerer and dip a level of bloodrager to pick up the havok for its first level bloodline power.

Blood Arcanist Archetype isn't actually necessary to make this good. I just wanted Blood Intensity, but that can be replaced with Intensify Spell.

So what if Cross-blooded Orc/Drac(Red) and pick up Blood Havoc Mutation for the level 1 bloodline power, then went straight Arcanist19 with no archetype for lvls 2-20?


You can’t take crossblooded and bloodline havoc with the same class. They aren’t compatible options. But you could add a bloodrager dip to grab havok as I mentioned earlier.


So technically, blood havoc and blood intensity cannot be taken by a Blood Arcanist then, can they?


Blood intensity would take a big dip. But you could do this:
1: Crossblooded sorcerer
2: Blood Havok bloodrager
3-20: blood arcanist

If you wanted to pickup blood intensity, you'd have to take eight level so of bloodrager, and it wouldn't be worth it.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder RPG / Advice / a good sorcerer bloodline? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.