|
Two specific examples:
1) Warlock Vigilante - They gain the Mystic Bolts ability, but nothing ever explicitly states they are proficient with them, despite talking about taking Weapon Focus.
2) Ectoplasmatist Spiritualist - They gain the Ectoplasmic Lash ability, and again, never explicitly state that they are proficient with the lashes.
I'm sure there are other examples. Many classes that grant similar abilities say that they function as a specific type of weapon, so proficiency is easy to figure out.
Is there some blanket ruling somewhere that says you're always proficient with class-given special attacks? The closest thing I could find was this FAQ saying that you're always proficient with class given natural attacks.
I would assume so. I can't find anything that specifically states it, but the lack of feats would suggest that you are. Clerics, Wizards and Sorcerers tend to get abilities via domains, schools and bloodlines respectively that grant an ability that reads.
You unleash a <insert elemental attack type here> targeting an enemy within 30 feet of you as a ranged touch attack. This attack <insert damage or effect here>.
I've never gotten the impression that these attacks suffer a -4 penalty due to non-proficiency with the attack. They do suffer a -4 penalty for shooting into melee and provoke AoO as normal for ranged attacks. A -8 to hit is a pretty harsh penalty for a 1st level wizard (who has no BAB) trying to use his arcane school power to blast an enemy in melee. They would literally be better off using a crossbow instead. Since it would do more damage and have a better chance of hitting. Since the opponent is unlikely to be so heavily armored for their touch AC to be much different than their normal AC.
Does a caster have proficiency in acid splash? It would have been nice if they'd included the rule somewhere, but I think we can assume that you are proficient in any magical attacks you get access to, unless specified otherwise.
As Meirril said, only actual manufactured weapons have or require proficiency.
Natural attacks, spells, abilities and even unarmed attacks all do not have proficiency and aren't subject to any penalty, even if they are 'weapon-like' and able to benefit from things like Weapon Focus.
Note that this doesn't necessarily apply if a spell or ability creates something that 'functions like a scimitar' for example.
As Meirril said, only actual manufactured weapons have or require proficiency.
Natural attacks, spells, abilities and even unarmed attacks all do not have proficiency and aren't subject to any penalty, even if they are 'weapon-like' and able to benefit from things like Weapon Focus.
Note that this doesn't necessarily apply if a spell or ability creates something that 'functions like a scimitar' for example.
Actually, natural attacks do have proficiency---you just never need to worry about it.
Natural Attacks: Am I proficient in my natural attacks?
Yes. Whether you get those natural attacks from your race (as stated in the Bestiary entry on natural attacks), your class (as stated in the druid proficiency list), a polymorph effect (as stated in the Magic chapter), or any other source (such as an alchemist's feral mutagen), you are proficient in your natural attacks.
As Meirril said, only actual manufactured weapons have or require proficiency.
Natural attacks, spells, abilities and even unarmed attacks all do not have proficiency and aren't subject to any penalty, even if they are 'weapon-like' and able to benefit from things like Weapon Focus.
Note that this doesn't necessarily apply if a spell or ability creates something that 'functions like a scimitar' for example.
Actually, natural attacks do have proficiency---you just never need to worry about it.
Natural Attacks: Am I proficient in my natural attacks?
Yes. Whether you get those natural attacks from your race (as stated in the Bestiary entry on natural attacks), your class (as stated in the druid proficiency list), a polymorph effect (as stated in the Magic chapter), or any other source (such as an alchemist's feral mutagen), you are proficient in your natural attacks.
Well, that FAQ is correct but incorrect in some ways. You actually don't have a 'proficiency' in that something gives you a proficiency the way that a class feature or a feat does for a weapon. What you have is proficiency in that you do not take a non-proficiency penalty.
Not being subject to a non-proficiency is for all intents and purposes the same as being proficient. And you only ever take non-proficiency penalties for weapon attacks, that is where proficiency comes from.
So the FAQ is absolutely correct as to the result. You don't take a non-proficiency penalty for natural attacks.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
As Meirril said, only actual manufactured weapons have or require proficiency.
Natural attacks, spells, abilities and even unarmed attacks all do not have proficiency and aren't subject to any penalty, even if they are 'weapon-like' and able to benefit from things like Weapon Focus.
Note that this doesn't necessarily apply if a spell or ability creates something that 'functions like a scimitar' for example.
Actually, natural attacks do have proficiency---you just never need to worry about it.
Natural Attacks: Am I proficient in my natural attacks?
Yes. Whether you get those natural attacks from your race (as stated in the Bestiary entry on natural attacks), your class (as stated in the druid proficiency list), a polymorph effect (as stated in the Magic chapter), or any other source (such as an alchemist's feral mutagen), you are proficient in your natural attacks.
Well, that FAQ is correct but incorrect in some ways. You actually don't have a 'proficiency' in that something gives you a proficiency the way that a class feature or a feat does for a weapon. What you have is proficiency in that you do not take a non-proficiency penalty.
Not being subject to a non-proficiency is for all intents and purposes the same as being proficient. And you only ever take non-proficiency penalties for weapon attacks, that is where proficiency comes from.
So the FAQ is absolutely correct as to the result. You don't take a non-proficiency penalty for natural attacks.
One, I don't think "the FAQ is incorrect" is something anyone outside Paizo is entitled to say. For the rest of us, it's da rules... roll with it. Not really interested in arguing this meta-point though.
Two, natural attacks use weapons by definition, specifically natural weapons:
Natural Attacks: Attacks made with natural weapons, such as claws and bites, are melee attacks that can be made against any creature within your reach (usually 5 feet).
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Weapons are grouped into several interlocking sets of categories. These categories pertain to what training is needed to become proficient in a weapon's use (simple, martial, or exotic), the weapon's usefulness either in close combat (melee) or at a distance (ranged, which includes both thrown and projectile weapons), its relative encumbrance (light, one-handed, or two-handed), and its size (Small, Medium, or Large).
So, unless stated otherwise, if a weapon isn't simple, martial or exotic, then proficiency doesn't pertain to that weapon. Natural attacks are one of the few other options that state otherwise.
easy.
since in the warlock it say :"a warlock can take Weapon Focus (mystic bolt)" and weapon focus need you to be proficient with said weapon that mean the warlock Is proficient with the bolts. (same way you can take weapon focus (rays) even though it never say that caster get proficiency in ray attacks.)
