ok so I will have issues tracking the 3/1 rage round structure, so what about a class feature that grants extra damage as you go further in your turns?
something that adds 2 damage first turn, 4 on the second, 6 on the last?
that gives me a small motivation to keep track for my own sake
Mark has said you get a boost of temporary hit points on round 5. There could already be other such bonuses that get boosted the more times your rage cycles already, which honestly, I hope so too.
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Definitely need more pitiful factor if you want a chance. Maximal debasement.
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Definitely need more pitiful factor if you want a chance. Maximal debasement.
time is hard plz paizo
i have seen the hours, days, years of my life, fade away
i am not able to draw the line anymore – the line that separates a memory from a mere fabrication of the senses – that line in the sand that has been trampled on by the hard-stomping feet of regret, inaction and cowardice, and also the feet of heavy substance abuse
please, paizo, i entreat you, do not make me look at the past.
paizo, hold my gaze straight at the future, entice me with the tentation of what is to come – even if it's a mere 2 extra fake damage in a fake adventure in a darkened room
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I can't even... this thread right now.
I think what he meant by that is you get temp hit points on round 1 (start rage cycle 1) then you keep raging round 2 and 3, fatigue/off cycle round 4, round 5 you start a a new rage cycle so you get the same number of temp hit points you got the first cycle, it's just a new batch with the new rage.
Right, first round as well. I hope they stack though and not just reset every time.
LOL
Contributor
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Definitely need more pitiful factor if you want a chance. Maximal debasement.time is hard plz paizo
i have seen the hours, days, years of my life, fade away
i am not able to draw the line anymore – the line that separates a memory from a mere fabrication of the senses – that line in the sand that has been trampled on by the hard-stomping feet of regret, inaction and cowardice, and also the feet of heavy substance abuse
please, paizo, i entreat you, do not make me look at the past.
paizo, hold my gaze straight at the future, entice me with the tentation of what is to come – even if it's a mere 2 extra fake damage in a fake adventure in a darkened room
big mood
ok so I will have issues tracking the 3/1 rage round structure, so what about a class feature that grants extra damage as you go further in your turns?
something that adds 2 damage first turn, 4 on the second, 6 on the last?
that gives me a small motivation to keep track for my own sake
You already receive a damage bonus and other modifiers that make you have to keep track of it anyway, since you basically never did keep track in PF1 to begin with, due to how many rounds you could have.
How about the incentive of the GM not wanting to throw the book at you for not keeping track of already dumbed-down modifiers that he should expect his players to keep track of amyway?
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Real world:
Use a d4 to update what round you're on.
Use four Othello pieces, flipping one at the start of your turn.
Grab three small snack items (Skittles, etc.). You eat one every round. When you don't have one to eat for the round, you are sad, and grab three more to start again next round.
Digital:
Have a rage bar like your health bar.
Use the posts to keep track of the round.
Silly:
Have your Barbarian count what rage round they're on in-character. "ONE, TWO, THREE, REST. ONE, TWO, THREE, REST."
The bigger issue to me is that there is no longer nearly as much agency or interesting tactical decisions to be made with raging. 3 rounds is 3 rounds every time? I guess the big decision for the Barbarian will be whether it is worth spending an action on the first round to rage when they could otherwise move and power attack or attack twice, but with the iterative attack penalties, I bet that the bonuses to HP and damage are not going to be big enough that it is a non-decision. I just think something is lost in the player no longer having to judge whether they want to end the rage or keep it going.
I also agree that three rounds feels a little arbitrary and unless a lot of other short buff spells and abilities last three rounds it could get messy to track if barbarians rage for three rounds, Bards inspire courage for 5. Cantrip shield lasts for 1, etc. I would much rather the bonuses be balanced out so that these 1 action buffs last the same amount of time for ease of tracking.
I also agree that three rounds feels a little arbitrary and unless a lot of other short buff spells and abilities last three rounds it could get messy to track if barbarians rage for three rounds, Bards inspire courage for 5. Cantrip shield lasts for 1, etc. I would much rather the bonuses be balanced out so that these 1 action buffs last the same amount of time for ease of tracking.
But the fun of having buffs from different sources having different durations comes with strategizing the optimal time to active them all, so that you have both the longest uptime with them active, and the most efficient uptime.
... doesn't it?
It certainly can be fun, but when you are tracking 8-10 of such things at higher levels, it often becomes quite a slog.
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The bigger issue to me is that there is no longer nearly as much agency or interesting tactical decisions to be made with raging. 3 rounds is 3 rounds every time? I guess the big decision for the Barbarian will be whether it is worth spending an action on the first round to rage when they could otherwise move and power attack or attack twice, but with the iterative attack penalties, I bet that the bonuses to HP and damage are not going to be big enough that it is a non-decision. I just think something is lost in the player no longer having to judge whether they want to end the rage or keep it going.
Uh...in PF1, Rage wasn't a decision at anything beyond the lowest levels. You did it all the time every time. That's not an interesting tactical decision at all.
Meanwhile, in PF2, you need to figure out how long you think the combat's gonna last, figure out if spending a round fatigued is worth raging this round, and probably decide whether to use actions to buff yourself until end of Rage knowing that end is imminent. There are vastly more tactical decisions with Rage in PF2 because of its limitations.
I also agree that three rounds feels a little arbitrary and unless a lot of other short buff spells and abilities last three rounds it could get messy to track if barbarians rage for three rounds, Bards inspire courage for 5. Cantrip shield lasts for 1, etc. I would much rather the bonuses be balanced out so that these 1 action buffs last the same amount of time for ease of tracking.
This I can't comment on except that we know of nothing except Rage that lasts less than a minute but more than a round. That makes for only three possible durations in the vast majority of fights: One round, three rounds, and the whole fight.
That's easy enough to keep track of, IMO. Those categories might be violated later, but I wouldn't necessarily assume so (I expect Inspire Courage to be an action per round to keep going, for example).
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In PF1, the answer after level 5 was, “rage during combat for the duration of combat”. That wasn’t very tactical unless you got rage cycling. I think new rage is slightly more tactical by giving you a round that works differently. You could dip casting for that round, or use skill feats to intimidate on that round.
Well I am not sure if fatigue will work the same in PF2, and I do feel like fatigue is not a mechanic that is handled very well by TTRPGs generally, but 3 rounds of rage/1 rounds of fatigue feels very robotic/video game mechanic. I understand that they got rid of alignment components, but there is something about "every barbarian rages for exactly 3 rounds" that feels artificially weird to me. Maybe they clarify that somewhat with how the totems work and it is an innate part of the magic of "rage," but hopefully barbarians will at least be able to stop the rage early and experience the fatigue earlier if they want so it turns into a three turns maximum.
Personally, I would much rather see rage have a consequence that builds as you continue to use it, rather than just a set duration.
Well I am not sure if fatigue will work the same in PF2, and I do feel like fatigue is not a mechanic that is handled very well by TTRPGs generally, but 3 rounds of rage/1 rounds of fatigue feels very robotic/video game mechanic. I understand that they got rid of alignment components, but there is something about "every barbarian rages for exactly 3 rounds" that feels artificially weird to me. Maybe they clarify that somewhat with how the totems work and it is an innate part of the magic of "rage," but hopefully barbarians will at least be able to stop the rage early and experience the fatigue earlier if they want so it turns into a three turns maximum.
Personally, I would much rather see rage have a consequence that builds as you continue to use it, rather than just a set duration.
So was having X rounds of rage, there isn't much difference of arbitration here. Also, rage was an EX ability in PF1, so I doubt it will become SU here.
I'd imagine stopping rage would take an action to do, unless it's at the 4th round, where it ends automatically.
As for building effects, no thanks. If we can't keep track of the 3/1 rule, I doubt building effects would make tracking rage easier. Also, it creates complexity when this was designed to be simpler.
Unarmored options for all armor using classes would be awesome.
I'm genuinely wondering how they manage to handle the monk having a respectable armor class for all levels even if all they wear is pants, just to see how unarmored defense functions in this version of Pathfinder.
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I'm genuinely wondering how they manage to handle the monk having a respectable armor class for all levels even if all they wear is pants, just to see how unarmored defense functions in this version of Pathfinder.
They probably get to add both Dex and Wis to AC (plus Proficiency). That may cap a bit higher than Light Armor (which is probably Dex +2), but it only meaningfully beats it if you focus really hard on those two stats, which may well not even be an option (if you can't start with an 18 in either of those two, that limits things a bit). Assuming you need high Str for attack, Dex + Wis probably maxes at +10 (it maxes at +12 no matter what, BTW), which is only one higher than Dex + Light Armor (which'd be a +9).
I'm genuinely wondering how they manage to handle the monk having a respectable armor class for all levels even if all they wear is pants, just to see how unarmored defense functions in this version of Pathfinder.They probably get to add both Dex and Wis to AC (plus Proficiency). That may cap a bit higher than Light Armor (which is probably Dex +2), but it only meaningfully beats it if you focus really hard on those two stats, which may well not even be an option (if you can't start with an 18 in either of those two, that limits things a bit). Assuming you need high Str for attack, Dex + Wis probably maxes at +10 (it maxes at +12 no matter what, BTW), which is only one higher than Dex + Light Armor (which'd be a +9).
I'm further wondering if there is something like "Unarmored Armor Proficiency" like there is light, etc armor proficiency. Just to represent how you are good at protecting yourself based on what you're wearing, and what feats (if any) there are to support this.
Hopefully monk preview on Friday.
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Yes, the soft cap off 22 in Dex and Wis, assume a bonus of +12.
That's gonna necessitate at least one stat boost item, though, and more likely two, and those things are expensive. IMO it's not very likely.
So, is there an unarmoured proficiency bonus (expert, etc)?
Mark Seifter mentioned that somebody other than Paladins got a Legendary AC Proficiency that isn't armor, so there probably is and Monks probably get Legendary in it.
Yes, the soft cap off 22 in Dex and Wis, assume a bonus of +12.That's gonna necessitate at least one stat boost item, though, and more likely two, and those things are expensive. IMO it's not very likely.
I wonder how this is going to work out, though. Will it be a money thing? (If so, it'll probably need a way flatter WBL curve than currently), Will it be a Resonance thing? (If so, how do you balance it with other flavorful magic items?) Will it be a hard "One stat boosting item" rule? (If so, will MAD characters be able to keep up?")
If I had to guess, I'd think a flatter WBL would probably be the easiest solution, but I'm not sure if it's the best.