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Bruno, a handsome and beautiful Tetori, try to figure out how to use Shifter as grappler. While Bruno could obviously go with Druid, Bruno want to challenge self to use full BAB shifter dip to make a PFS-legal pouncing grappler who pins on the charge.
Maneuver Master Monk 1/Shifter 4/Brutal Pugilist Barbarian X
Human
STR 18 (+2 went here)
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 9
WIS 14
CHA 7
Trait: Bred For War, Reactionary
L1 Shifter: Power Attack, (Human) Toughness
L2 Maneuver Master Monk: (Bonus) Improved Grapple
L3 Shifter: Burner feat: (Improved Initiative or whatever)
L4 Shifter: +1 STR
L5 Shifter: Shifter's Rush
L6 Brutal Pugilist Barbarian: Retrain Burner Feat > Extra Rage
L7 Rage Power: Animal Fury, Greater Grapple, Retrain Toughness > Superstition
L8 +1 STR
L9 Burner Feat
L10 Retrain Burner Feat > Rapid Grappler
L11 Rage Power: Witch Hunter, Extra Rage Power: Spell Sunder
For Brutal Pugilist maneuvers, choose CMB for Grapple and Sunder
Tiger Minor Aspect: You gain a +2 enhancement bonus to your Dexterity score.
Tiger Major Aspect: Your shape changes to that of a dire tiger. While in this form, you gain a base speed of 40 feet, low-light vision, scent (30 feet), the grab ability with both your bite and claw attacks, and pounce.
Pounce: When a creature with this special attack makes a charge, it can make a full attack
Shifter's Rush: When you use a move action to move 10 feet or more or when you charge, you can use wild shape as a free action during that movement.
Flurry of Maneuvers: At 1st level, as part of a full-attack action, a maneuver master can make one additional combat maneuver, regardless of whether the maneuver normally replaces a melee attack or requires a standard action.
Animal Fury: A barbarian can make a bite attack as part of the action to maintain or break free from a grapple. This attack is resolved before the grapple check is made. If the bite attack hits, any grapple checks made by the barbarian against the target this round are at a +2 bonus.
1) Retraining rules
2) If you grapple with a grab in the initial natural attacks, can you use the bonus maneuver from Flurry of Maneuvers to grapple and pin?
3) Double check that GM is ok with Animal Fury working with the Dire Tiger bite (i.e. getting bonus bite attacks during a grapple maintain).
4) Reasonable amount of free actions in a turn vis a vis this build
While there are many grappler standard magic items you should buy for the example pounce attack only this item is factored in:
Anaconda’s Coils: The wearer gains a +2 enhancement bonus to Strength and a +2 competence bonus on grapple combat maneuver checks. Treat the enhancement bonus to Strength as temporary ability bonus for the first 24 hours the belt is worn. In addition, the belt grants the wearer the constrict ability for 1d6 points of damage plus the wearer’s Strength modifier.
While you can pounce with a flurry of maneuvers at L5, the build picks steam when adding in Animal Fury with 2 Levels of Barbarian and picking up Greater Grapple.
At Level 7, before Power Attack or Pounce bonuses:
+28 Grapple CMB
Bite +14 2d6+9 plus Grab
Claw x2 +14 2d4+9 plus Grab
Again, as noted previously, the only magic item equipped in this example is the Anaconda's Coils. The hit and damage can easily be boosted.
Round 1
Swift Action
->Tiger Minor Aspect to offset -2 DEX size penalty from Tiger Major Aspect
Charge
->Free Action enter Tiger Major Aspect
->Free Action Rage
Bite
->Bite for 2d6+STR and Grab
-->Grapple
--->Constrict 1d6+STR
---->Free Action Release
Claw 1
->Claw 1 for 2d4+STR and Grab
-->Grapple
--->Constrict 1d6+STR
---->Free Action Release
Claw 2
->Claw 2 for 2d4+STR and Grab
-->Grapple
--->Constrict 1d6+STR
---->KEEP GRAPPLE
Bonus Maneuver
->Grapple to PIN
-->Animal Fury Bite Attack for 2d6+STR
-->Constrict 1d6+STR
Total Pounce Damage:
8d6 + 4d4 + (STRx8)
Round 2
Either release and do full natural attack routine for
5d6 + 4d4 + (STRx6)
-or-
2 Grapples (Normal + Greater Grapple) for
10d6 + (STRx6)
Grapple to damage (twice)
->Grapple
-->Animal Fury Bite Attack for 2d6+STR
-->Grapple Damage (Bite) 2d6+STR
-->Constrict 1d6+STR
Headband: +WIS
Neck: Furious Dueling AoMF, Holy AoMF or Furious Merciful AoMF
Shoulders: Cloak of Resistance
Body: Bodywrap of Mighty Strikes
Belt: Anaconda's Coils
Hand: Gauntlet of the Skilled Maneuver - Grapple then Mantis Embrace
Wrist: Armbands of the Brawler (until supplanted by Anaconda's coils)
Ring: Protection, Eloquence
Slotless: Dusty Rose Ioun Stone slotted into Wayfinder
Tagged for further review.
Very interesting work here!
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Hi Bruno! Thanks for helping me make my grappler build way back.
Just checking, would it be possible to make this build using a wildshaped druid instead?
(Assuming the character gets the feat to up wildshape by 4 levels.)
Here is a druid 4 / tetori 6. All you have to do is change out tetori for your prefered flavor.
That shifter/barbarian build is a wonder to behold. How do you bypass the barbarian/monk lawful alignment conflict?
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Just checking, would it be possible to make this build using a wildshaped druid instead? (Assuming the character gets the feat to up wildshape by 4 levels.)
Bruno say yes but 3/4 BAB of 4 Druid levels make retraining of feats more mandatory. If you use the stat array for the Pouncer Grappler above, you'd need to drop a point into DEX at level 4 so it is 15 and when you shapeshift and drop to 13 and you keep Improved/Greater Grapple active.
L1 Maneuver Monk: Feat: Toughness, Bonus: Dirty Fighting, Monk-Imp Grapple
L2 Druid
L3 Druid: Burner Feat
L4 Druid
L5 Druid: Natural Spell, Retrain Burner to Shaping Focus. You can do a pouncing leopard (grab on bite) or whatever else grabs your fancy.
L6 Barbarian. Dire Tiger Form comes online
L7 Barbarian Rage Power: Animal Fury, Feat Extra Rage
L8 Barbarian. Dire Lion comes online.
L9 Barbarian. Greater Grapple
This a quick and dirty build focusing on the pouncing aspect with Maneuver Monk. There probably smoother progression of retrained feats, but this a quick rough go at a build. The loss of the 1 BAB delay Greater Grapple to L9 (or L8 if aggressive with retrains and want to dump Toughness or Dirty Fighting).
This post have some advice on grappling animal forms (not all have pounce, but good reference).
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How do you bypass the barbarian/monk lawful alignment conflict?
Take monk level before the barbarian levels. Even if you become ex-monk by changing to non-lawful alignment to become barbarian, you still retain all monk abilities (reverse is not true for barbarian-to-monk multiclassing). All you want is single level of Maneuver Master monk for flurry of manuevers.
Bruno, a handsome and beautiful tetori, may have have handsome and beautiful tetori friend who took too many [redacted S4 boons] in PFS and became ex-tetori/brutal pugilist...
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Constable (cavalier archetype) for Grapple during charge?
Then there's the Bushwhack feat...
Re: Constable
Bruno think that an option but:
1) It does not grant Improved Grapple (like monk bonus pool), so that a feat you need to burn a feat slot on so you can get Greater Grapple and Rapid Grappler.
2) Constable grapple is in place of attack (so you lose some DPS from a natural attack that has grab) vs free additional maneuver from the MM Monk.
3) While there is Order of the Hammer's free grapple on full attack ability, you only have 1 challenge unless you commit several levels in cavalier.
4) However, the Full BAB is nice.
Re: Bushwhack
1) Bruno think Bushwhack is wack because it require a creature to be both unaware of your presence AND specifically flat-flooted. Very very situational and usable pretty much only in the very first round of combat.
2) Bruno once theory craft a MM Monk 1 then Ninja X using a Seven Branched Sword (can use to make trip attempt that leaves victim flat footed instead of prone). You would: Full Attack, Trip/Flatfoot Target, Swift Action turn invisible via Vanishing Trick, use the Flurry Bonus Grapple, then get Free Action Bushwhack Grapple to pin. Yes, there are things like Shatter Defenses but trying to invest in that chain, the grappling chain and turning invisible is just brutal.
Have you considered playing a straight Beastkin Berserker Barbarian? You get access to Beast Shape III at Level 12 (unlike the Shifter who is restricted to Beast Shape II). Plus, you can select any legal Beast Shape creature, unlike the Shifter who is limited to a list of 12.
I think the archetype was nerfed in PFS to be more in line with Mooncursed (in that the bonuses from Beast Shape replace Rage bonuses, rather than stack alongside them), but even then, I feel like you gain way more by staying a single classed Barbarian than you would by going Shifter for 4 levels.
Mainly, Strength Surge--the best rage power for people interested in Combat Maneuvers--gives you a bonus equal on the roll equal to your Barbarian level. Plus you get great saves against magic with Superstitious, and decent defenses with the DR from Invulnerable Rager. With Invulnerable Rager + the Stalwart Feat + Improved Stalwart, you become pretty difficult to take down even with a lack of armor.
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Have you considered playing a straight Beastkin Berserker Barbarian?
Bruno did not because 'Bruno want to challenge self to use full BAB shifter dip to make a PFS-legal pouncing grappler who pins on the charge.' ;)
You get access to Beast Shape III at Level 12 (unlike the Shifter who is restricted to Beast Shape II).
Bruno has 16 or so PFS characters. Only 3 or so are Seekers (L17 Life Oracle, L16 Bruno, and L12 DimDoor Shield Basher). Bruno also GM lots. Planning for a L12 ability never really a consideration in Bruno's builds because it rare to actually play that high where people haven't already burnt their playthroughs of PFS sanctioned mods/APs. Also, with a dip of MM Monk, it would be a L13 ability...
Plus, you can select any legal Beast Shape creature, unlike the Shifter who is limited to a list of 12.
For this build, you go with a pounce build with (hopefully) many grab attempts. That's pretty much Tiger, which you don't qualify for until 8th level--9th with MM dip (alternately: any multi-grab creature when you have the Greater Beast Totem (10th, 11th with MM)).
For those not familiar with Beastkin Beserker, while you have all the legal forms to choose from, you are locked into specific forms you choose at 1, 5, 10, etc. So at L5 you could choose Dire Tiger but you could not transform into it until L8...meaning from L4-7 you are locked into a small/medium form that is inferior to what Shifter has had from L4 and you surpass them form-wise only come L12 (which Bruno does not consider for builds).
I think the archetype was nerfed in PFS to be more in line with Mooncursed (in that the bonuses from Beast Shape replace Rage bonuses, rather than stack alongside them), but even then, I feel like you gain way more by staying a single classed Barbarian than you would by going Shifter for 4 levels.
Bruno can't find any such info. Any links? However, Beastkin Barbarian very good archetype, but for purpose of this build--pounce, multi-grab, pin in round 1 as soon as possible--it not best fit.
Mainly, Strength Surge--the best rage power for people interested in Combat Maneuvers--gives you a bonus equal on the roll equal to your Barbarian level. Plus you get great saves against magic with Superstitious, and decent defenses with the DR from Invulnerable Rager. With Invulnerable Rager + the Stalwart Feat + Improved Stalwart, you become pretty difficult to take down even with a lack of armor.
Bruno agree with Strength Surge. For this build, with CMB of 28 before grapple boosting magic items at L7, Bruno auto-succeed vs average CMD for equal CR and, with magic items, easily make grapple work all the way until retirement at L12. If Bruno were to play past L11, he would definitely get Strength Surge!
For this build, Bruno have Superstition. While not as good as pure beastkin barb, a level of monk is very nice for all-good saves bump. Also, if Bruno weren't in hurry to get Superstition > Witch Hunter > Spellsunder, he would pick up Planar Wildshape--the scaling Resistances, DR (esp L11+) are amazing.
To be clear, Bruno do appreciate suggestion of Beastkin! Thank you, Kaouse! Bruno putting Beastkin Barbarian in pocket for future characters. However, for this build, Bruno feel it not right.
Bravo, Bruno.
That is a very clever build. Fun stuff.
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Bruno, a handsome and beautiful tetori, always consider Strangler...but can never quite fit it into a build (yet)!
Bruno, to be very honest, may have tunnel vision going Barbarian for Animal Fury and Spell Sunder--especially because this build would have no anti-Freedom of Movement otherwise. Also, SS is great combat utility ability to have for the party when dealing with stupid dumdum caster spells.
Bruno almost always take Power Attack on grapple builds because when you get 2-3 grapple checks to damage a round, the -(x) to HIT is easily countered by +5 CMB to maintain. It easy "free" damage...and with things like Pinning KO doubling that static damage very nice. For example, at L9 with Power Attack and Pinning KO, it's 6 additional damage on a grapple to damage, 12 if creature susceptible to non-lethal--do three grapples to damage with Rapid Grappler and that an easy 18-36 bonus damage per round. Ideally, at L9 the 36 non-lethal Power Attack damage is 1/3 of the average HP for CR 9 creature (i.e. mook) or 1/4-1/5 the average HP of a CR 12 foe (i.e. typical boss).
To be fair, Bruno very biased towards grapple DPS builds over grapple control builds. Also, when Bruno can't grapple, having high STR, a 2H weapon and Power Attack means he can still contribute (somewhat). It rare when happen, but Bruno believe in being ready for that situation.
Finally, for Strangler:
At 1st level, a strangler deals +1d6 sneak attack damage whenever she succeeds at a grapple check to damage or pin an opponent.
The example pounce attack has no grapple actions to damage and only one pin attempt (with the Flurry of Maneuvers bonus grapple) in the first round. However, that second round with 2-3 grapple attempts to damage it would be very nice to get that L2 Brawler 2d6 x (# of grapples to damage)!
Ugh, Selvaxri, don't make Bruno head hurt with dip possibilities.
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Bruno needs to meet Teht, my Grappling Grippli.
Tehturee once witnessed Pathfinders chase and apprehend a bad man. One of the PAthfinders was a monk that grappled, and never let go- and took the name of the Monk as he left village. Teht was impressed and inspired- but couldn't find a place to teach to do that which he aspired to be: a monk that grappled and never let go.
So he's improvising.
Until recently, Teht has been doing okay with grappling. being a small frogman in a world of much larger persons, Teht isn't scared. He once knocked the head of a skeleton he was grappling clean off! Then, in same scenario, Teht managed to toss some scary statues off a ledge when smartman said they break weapons.
One of his more dubious exploits happened when he went up against a Cyclops.
Recently, he's actually tied some bad things up [via Order of the Penitent's Expert Captor ability]- a Fire Drake, a couple of skeletons, and a wild Dire Boar... he almost grappled a Frost Dragon... but no. :(
Teht doesn't want to hurt Bruno's head with multiclass. Teht is still pondering what he shall do when he gets to lvl 9. Teht, currently lvl 6, is only a Strangler 2/Constable 3/Drill Sergeant 1 and aspires for Strangler 2/Constable 5/Drill Sergeant 2/ XX? 3
Should Teht consider Shift for his own hilarity?
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Bruno needs to meet Teht, my Grappling Grippli.
Text sounds like Bruno’s kind of frog!
Bruno never get Grippli boon, otherwise Bruno definitely would have made a Grippli Grappler (the Grippler)!
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Mea Culpa!
For Kossar's question, Bruno double checked progression and realized he left out a rage power pick up at L9...the consequence being an open feat at L11! And to answer your question, Kossar: Toughness becomes Extra Rage Power: Superstition
The Final Feats:
Extra Rage
Extra Rage Power
Improved Grapple (monk bonus)
Power Attack
Rapid Grappler
Shifter Rush
+1 L11 Feat
The Corrected Progession:
L1 Shifter: Power Attack, (Human) Toughness
L2 Maneuver Master Monk: (Bonus) Improved Grapple
L3 Shifter: Burner feat 1: (Improved Initiative or whatever)
L4 Shifter: +1 STR
L5 Shifter: Shifter's Rush
L6 Brutal Pugilist Barbarian: Retrain Burner Feat 1 > Extra Rage
L7 Rage Power: Animal Fury, Greater Grapple, Retrain Toughness > Extra Rage Power: Superstition
L8 +1 STR
L9 Rage Power: Witch Hunter, Burner Feat 2
L10 Retrain Burner Feat 2 > Rapid Grappler
L11 Rage Power: Spell Sunder, L11 Feat (Open)
If you don't want to rush Rapid Grappler with retraining, you can take RG at L11 and grab something else at L9 (perhaps Planar Wildshape for SR, DR and resistances--if something penetrates SR, then you have Superstition/Monk-dip boosted saves as your defense-in-depth).
This is copied from the Grab special ability;
The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used in the grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a –20 penalty on its CMB check to make and maintain the grapple, but does not gain the grappled condition itself
With this in mind, would the (grapple-damage-release) combo for each attack suffer the -20? If it does not, then why?
Thank you!