Do/should spells that require attack rolls (such as the Harm spell or a hypothetical Shocking Grasp) incur penalties as if attacking with a weapon normally?
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They do/will, per Mark.
Anything with the attack tag contributes to/accrues penalties. Maneuvers will as well.
Makes sense... But then I think, why only attack roll spells penalized, why not penalize Save DC also?
Or Spell Resistance check if that is still in the game, for save/attack-less spells?
(I've guessed that CL is no longer used for that, shifting to Spell Level centered mechanic)
Makes sense... But then I think, why only attack roll spells penalized, why not penalize Save DC also?
Or Spell Resistance check if that is still in the game, for save/attack-less spells?
(I've guessed that CL is no longer used for that, shifting to Spell Level centered mechanic)
I think spells save DCs are generally balanced in a different way. Attacks at your highest bonus are generally going to hit, but monster are generally more likely-than-not to succeed on their good saves and more likely-than-not to fail on their poor saves. Also, most things that require a save are two action affairs to begin with so you are rarely going to be demanding iterative saves.
A fun side effect for gish characters: you get to make an attack at high bonus and demand a save from an enemy on the same turn. That is pretty neat and kind of pays people back for having to deal with their multiple ability dependence.
Oh look, a slight nerf to blasting(without areas) is found. Farewell, scorching ray.
I am guessing that scorching ray has some kind of special rules for iterative ray attacks. Maybe they are treated as being agile or whatever.
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Oh look, a slight nerf to blasting(without areas) is found. Farewell, scorching ray.I am guessing that scorching ray has some kind of special rules for iterative ray attacks. Maybe they are treated as being agile or whatever.
I would think that scorching ray uses multiple actions to cast and the (afaik) simultaneous beams all count as 'first' attack
Oh look, a slight nerf to blasting(without areas) is found. Farewell, scorching ray.
It's unknown how scorching ray will work, since this was merely a general mechanics question regarding multiple spells being cast that involve attack rolls.
So if I cast Scorching Ray as two actions, with full bonuses (because the simultaneous attacks should all be at the same bonuses), and use a one action spell (or cantrip) that also includes an attack, I'll suffer a -5 penalty to the attack roll of that successive spell. Similarly, if I decide to use a simple melee attack with a weapon, this also suffers the -5. Is this correct?
A fun side effect for gish characters: you get to make an attack at high bonus and demand a save from an enemy on the same turn. That is pretty neat and kind of pays people back for having to deal with their multiple ability dependence.
It seems a wash (or at best a +1 difference) to me. Casters will have high attacks with spell rolls because those go off casting proficiency, and maintaining a decent attack stat (presumably Dex for ranged) isn't that hard. Any deficiency on attack stat is presumably made up for a superior save DC from casting stat.
It seems a wash (or at best a +1 difference) to me. Casters will have high attacks with spell rolls because those go off casting proficiency, and maintaining a decent attack stat (presumably Dex for ranged) isn't that hard. Any deficiency on attack stat is presumably made up for a superior save DC from casting stat.
A fun side effect for gish characters: you get to make an attack at high bonus and demand a save from an enemy on the same turn. That is pretty neat and kind of pays people back for having to deal with their multiple ability dependence.
I am talking about if I build a cleric with 16 str and 16 wis or whatever. That character will have an optimal damage round when he demands a save from an enemy and then bludgeons the enemy with his holy warhammer.