Creative Director
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He also hinted that they had some metagame ideas in mind about what to do with the high-level former-PCs who had run through the APs, without every adventure being: "We face a great threat! You-- Go find the Sandpoint Heroes who defeated Runelord Karzoug 15 years ago,...
This actually plays into the text and plot of Return of the Runelords, but it's NOT something we'll likely to specifically cover in 2nd edition. As with all the games you run at your table, we don't know how they all play out—only you do. And that makes you the expert on how those PCs end up playing roles and interacting with adventures played later at your table.
One of the ways we DO try to avoid setting up potential conflicts in this way is avoiding as much as possible placing adventures in locations that have already been featured in prior adventures. Sometimes it happens, though, and when we do, we try to include some information about how the previous adventure impacted things.
Folks can absolutely take some of the things we're doing with prior PCs being a part of a new adventure in Return of the Runelords, though, and adapt them to their own games as needed.
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No worries! I'm just a bit reflexively thin-skinned when it comes to Mythic Adventures. I'm actually VERY proud of Wrath of the Righteous—it's a storyline I'd been aching to tell more or less from day one of Pathfinder once we decided there was a Worldwound, and it's just really soul-cripplingly frustrating and depressing that some folks have latched onto it as a failure due to the way the Mythic Rules and high-level play interacted when I put so much work into the AP to make it memorable. It just ended up being memorable for a lot of the wrong reasons, and that overshadows what I feel is one of the better storylines we've done in the line.
Can I get a source on that, because if he did say that, I expect he was being facetious. While one can find plenty of examples of Mr. Directosaur bemoaning the way high level mythic play works and the backlash that some of the consumers had against the mechanics thereof, he still seems to like the storyline of WotR. Seeing as it being canon has nothing to do with mechanics and evrything to do with story, I see no reason to assume that it wouldn't be canon.
Add to that fact that Paizo is unlikely to make a "we're closing the worldwound, for real this time" adventure for fear of outcry that they are invalidating peoples games...
Well, when you see an snow white dragon destroying a village, think chromatic wyrm, not renegade albino silver dragon.
My only source is reddit. I wasn’t even aware of the non-canon aspect until my group told me. Jacobs has gone on record that he’d like all AP to be canon, but that it’s not his call.
From reddit:
Wrath of the Righteous is not in the timeline. The things that happen in that campaign change the landscape of the planet and James Jacobs I think has said that in future campaigns the events will not have happened.
I think what you might have seen is Paizo’s old standard line, which was that the APs start from the base of the campaign setting, and mostly do not presume that others have happened. This is being revised for pf2 and they are deciding the result of each AP for the revised setting, including that WotR ends with the Worldwound closed.
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I never said that, although I can accept the possibility that something I did say was misunderstood.
Apologies, but people on reddit definitely misunderstood what you said. I read one of your old posts where you said, paraphrased, that you believe each AP was canon. Hopefully the info gets out to the right channels.
Funny, I thought it was stated that all the APs did happen and that MOST of them the Heroes had won.
Funny, I thought it was stated that all the APs did happen and that MOST of them the Heroes had won.
I think you meant PCs had won...
on the Campaign setting topic: I could see an hardcover ISWG style book, maybe with a different page counts, it could be convenient for veterant players/GMs and would be quite convenient for newcomers.
I actually don't mind at all that ISWG won't be getting redone, and am quite happy that they aren't doing so! I had anticipated that perhaps we'd be getting a smaller (perhaps 96-page in size) detailing the changes from the APs in Golarion.
Admittedly, I was curious if they'd create a book that detailed both scenarios: This is how the world changes if the PCs succeeded, and this is how the world changes if the PCs failed. That would also enable anyone using the book that hadn't run specific APs to pick and choose how they wanted the world to change from that book. Mind you, I can understand how this would make it very hard to create a new map of the Inner Sea. Plus, it's difficult to know exactly how each group's campaign ended.
I'm sure that however they choose to enlighten folk on how the world changes, it'll work out fine.
Hm, I'm not sure if this approach is financially viable if they plan to give PF2e a life-time of another decade. I mean, quite a lot of their setting books are heavy on the fluff and light on the crunch. If they don't mean to re-release those books in a full PF2e version, what are they going to publish to sustain them?
You gotta wonder how much is left after a while. :p
You gotta wonder how much is left after a while. :p
Yeah, there is already loads of re-hash
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Not really, and for how much is left, look at all the countries without their own books in the Inner Sea alone, that's not getting into the other continents, the oceans, the Darklands, the planets, the planes, and all the various threats and organizations wherein.
We don't have a Whispering Way book, we don't have a Red Mantis book, we don't have a Thassilon book, we don't have a Sleepless Agency book,...
I can go on.
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Sarusan. Vudra, extensively. The other side of Golarion. Because don't tell me it's flat.
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I've bought both the Dragon Empires Gazetteer and the Primer. Short of buying a dozen more myself and giving them to fellow players...
...I'm hoping for more on Garund and Arcadia, too.
I would love a Inner Sea World Guide for Tian Xia and all the other areas outside of the Inner Sea. Or at least one hardcover for everything outside of the Inner Sea.
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Probably stuff on all of the stuff that hasn't been covered.
They could do both an Hardcover ISWG2 and a softcover "update" to ISWG.
Probably stuff on all of the stuff that hasn't been covered.They could do both an Hardcover ISWG2 and a softcover "update" to ISWG.
If they're doing an update softcover to the ISWG, however, why would they need to do a second ISWG2? The former makes doing a latter irrelevant, doesn't it?
An ISWG2 hardcover simply isn't necessary, as all it would have in it is the identical information as the first one, but with the changes from the original APs put in. Thus, the original still holds strong and need not be replaced. They can then use the slot that would have been for an ISWG2 to give us something completely unique. A better use of resources on their part, I think. =)
I agree that printing an updated hardcover campaign setting guide is not a great idea.
Paizo already did that: Compare the 2008 OGL/3.5 hardcover Pathfinder Chronicles: Campaign Setting to the 2011 PFRPG Inner Sea World Guide. A lot of the art is re-used and large blocks of text are nearly identical between the two books.
The ISWG contains pretty much everything in the earlier book, correcting errors and adjusting missteps. It also included new, revised material, making the earlier book pretty much valueless as a Golarion playing aid. (Now, it's only useful as a collector's item for completists.)
That means that very few people are interested in buying the remaining copies of Pathfinder Chronicles: Campaign Setting, meaning that whatever inventory remains in the warehouse isn't going to move any time soon. That's not a profitable strategy!
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There's almost an infinite number of options available for the campaign setting line, if you consider that besides Nation's books, you could also have books covering specific subregions and major cities, plus all sort of other random content (different monster, organization books, religions, themes, etc)
That's just the inner sea. That doesn't even include different planes, foreign lands, or even planets.
Probably stuff on all of the stuff that hasn't been covered.They could do both an Hardcover ISWG2 and a softcover "update" to ISWG.If they're doing an update softcover to the ISWG, however, why would they need to do a second ISWG2? The former makes doing a latter irrelevant, doesn't it?
An ISWG2 hardcover simply isn't necessary, as all it would have in it is the identical information as the first one, but with the changes from the original APs put in. Thus, the original still holds strong and need not be replaced. They can then use the slot that would have been for an ISWG2 to give us something completely unique. A better use of resources on their part, I think. =)
One is for veterants who already have ISWG, the other for Newcomers, many who might not have thousands of $ to spend on older products to jump in.
One is for veterants who already have ISWG, the other for Newcomers, many who might not have thousands of $ to spend on older products to jump in.Probably stuff on all of the stuff that hasn't been covered.They could do both an Hardcover ISWG2 and a softcover "update" to ISWG.If they're doing an update softcover to the ISWG, however, why would they need to do a second ISWG2? The former makes doing a latter irrelevant, doesn't it?
An ISWG2 hardcover simply isn't necessary, as all it would have in it is the identical information as the first one, but with the changes from the original APs put in. Thus, the original still holds strong and need not be replaced. They can then use the slot that would have been for an ISWG2 to give us something completely unique. A better use of resources on their part, I think. =)
Honestly, I'm not sure they'd need to invest in thousands of dollars anyhow. As mentioned above, any new ISWG2 would have pretty much the same stuff in it that the 2011 version had, as they probably wouldn't add much info from the campaign setting books anyhow. The ISWG is a survey book of the Inner Sea region, so the blurbs need to be short. Anything that they'd change will already be done in the supplemental book for 2E that they're doing.
Thus, anyone new coming into the game at 2E can purchase the 2011 ISWG, then the upcoming supplement that has what changes from the APs exist and have everything they need from a world perspective for, what, $100? That's not a terribly significant investment, especially not for the gaming industry! =)
One thing I haven’t seen mentioned about is the Pathfinder Battles line. We know Kingmaker is coming out later this year, but usually upcoming sets are announced at PaizoCon. However, I haven’t seen any news about the PB miniature line.
Honestly, it’s a bit worrisome.
I dont think theyve ever announced a PFB set prior to a pending release have they?
I'll start to worry if theres no announcement after the kingmaker set ships.
Well, I know when I attended PaizoCon in 2013, then announced at least a couple of sets beyond what was already known (they announced Legends of Golarion and Wrath of the Righteous at Paizo Con).
And with GenCon, you will usually see at least one more set announced than what was already known going into the con, during their “Paizo 20xx and Beyond” seminar.
But that isn’t even scheduled right now for Gen Con, none of the seminars are, which is puzzling in itself.
Ah, I didn’t know that. My memory is clearly faulty.
Nonetheless, the Wizkids release schedule is hardly steady and predictable (sadly). Maybe there’s nothing until next year.
When they announced multiple sets, it was only a very general timeframe. “Spring” or “Fall 20xx”, etc. Maybe even “second half 20xx”. But at least we knew they were coming.
But it’s very possible they have changed how sets are announced now. I will admit, I haven’t followed that as closely as I used to. They may have only announced a set at a time for awhile and I just haven’t noticed until now.
I only brought it up as I hope sales for PFB have continued to do well. It has gone on for awhile now and there is always that concern things can begin to wane. I know at least the message board for it is pretty non-existant now (almost no participation), you really only see posts when a new mini blog is put up.
When I go to Gen Con, I will make a point to approach Erik and ask him about it, if I don’t hear anything until then.
Yeah - the success of 5E may be having an impact just based on branding (not that it should really matter).
I'd appreciate hearing anything you turn up.
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Erik has already announced, that he is very excited for the case incentive of the set AFTER Kingmaker.
That being said, D&D IS outselling Pathfinder 10 to one atm, hopefully that will change with the Playtest.
The Icons of the Realms minis are now being tied very closely to the D&D adventure books and massively promoted via twitch streams.
There will even be a $350 set which includes battle maps, props & handouts for the next D&D adventure.
What i find curious, is that the Kingmaker (Huge Earth & Water elementals) case incentives are now two seperate boxes for $34.99 each.
10 to 1? Wow. As long as the PFB miniatures are still selling well I guess that’s what’s important, but it’s hard to imagine they are (selling well) being outsold that much.
I do think that’s actually a great idea with the battle maps and props for the next adventure. Paizo could do something similar with APs. And I am assuming they are doing actual rolled up (vinyl) type maps.
Would love to see that option with PFB and have been wanting to see vinyl map options for Paizo APs for awhile now.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Got any source for that 10 to 1 statement?That being said, D&D IS outselling Pathfinder 10 to one atm, hopefully that will change with the Playtest.
That's nonsense, flat out.
There's no need to worry—current plans already extend well into the future.
Got any source for that 10 to 1 statement?That being said, D&D IS outselling Pathfinder 10 to one atm, hopefully that will change with the Playtest.
That's nonsense, flat out.
There's no need to worry—current plans already extend well into the future.
He did add "atm", so it might not includes older sales, and maybe not PDF sales either.
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Got any source for that 10 to 1 statement?That being said, D&D IS outselling Pathfinder 10 to one atm, hopefully that will change with the Playtest.
That's nonsense, flat out.
There's no need to worry—current plans already extend well into the future.
Thanks for the confirmation, Vic!
Glad to hear that 10 to 1 is not true. Although would have to say Wizards does have some good ideas on the upcoming maps and props being released with the D&D miniature line.
The spell effects are nice, especially the walls of fire/ice. And there is a large boat that is supposed to be released at the end of this year. (Star Falling?)
Would love to see some additional aspects like this as part of the Pathfinder Battle line.
But one thing that truly stands out with PFB over Icons of the Realms is the superior paint job. It may seem strange as WizKids does both lines, but we know it's because of the higher standards on quality from Paizo on that one. Don't ever back down from that.
Just be patient. To better model real analysis, he only posts his financial fan fic once per quarter.MARKOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
HERR MASSOUDI!
It's been almost two weeks.
So, the next one should be soon?