# Hideaway Limb confusion

### Rules Questions

OK, so reading through the description, it says that retrieving an item from a non-Quickdraw version only takes a move action rather than a standard. However, from my time playing Society, I recall that anyone with a BAB of at least 1 can draw a weapon while moving, and taking an item out of storage, like a healing serum, is a move action anyway. So, other than the obvious smuggling utility, what use is it really?

It costs 150 credits.

What more use do you want for that price point?

MY question is why a hideaway limb costs 150 credits, while a storage limb, which is the same thing except that it also acts as a prosthetic, costs 1,450 credits.

Prosthetic limb: 100 credits
+
Hideaway limb: 150 credits
=
Storage limb: 1,450 credits?

How does that math make sense?

And according to RAW, you can't have a Quickdraw Storage Limb at all, even though the complexity of the procedure necessary to put that mechanism in a pure prosthetic would have to be significantly less.

Basically the RAW punishes amputees, which I'm not sure is a good look...

Dracomicron wrote:

It costs 150 credits.

What more use do you want for that price point?

MY question is why a hideaway limb costs 150 credits, while a storage limb, which is the same thing except that it also acts as a prosthetic, costs 1,450 credits.

Prosthetic limb: 100 credits
+
Hideaway limb: 150 credits
=
Storage limb: 1,450 credits?

How does that math make sense?

And according to RAW, you can't have a Quickdraw Storage Limb at all, even though the complexity of the procedure necessary to put that mechanism in a pure prosthetic would have to be significantly less.

Basically the RAW punishes amputees, which I'm not sure is a good look...

Yeah... That is really baffling to me too. Funnily enough, that's actually why I asked, since my character's arm got flambéd by a Hellknight. XD And looking back at my options recently, I just realized a prosthetic and hideaway are mutually exclusive, considering they occupy the same slot, and the latter isn't a standalone limb. ...Unless a hand slot is considered distinct from an arm slot, in which case the storage limb is completely vestigial...

Can we get a dev in here to answer this? Could I have a hideaway limb be installed in the hand slot, even though the arm slot is taken by a prosthetic?

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IfritSlasher wrote:

Yeah... That is really baffling to me too. Funnily enough, that's actually why I asked, since my character's arm got flambéd by a Hellknight.

We should start a club. "Must be missing at least 1 limb to enter."

The advantage of a Prosthetic Storage Limb over a Hideaway Limb is that some augmentations are allowed to be placed on Prosthetic Limbs. As such, you can have a Prosthetic Storage Limb leg, combined with a Speed Suspension augmentation in the same leg. A simple Hideaway Limb would use up the leg slot and prevent that.

The cost of the combination of Hideaway Limb and Prosthetic Limb may seem out of proportion with their individual costs, but that is because its price is probably linked to its utility, in terms of game balance. So, the hidden 1,200 cr cost is for that ability to double up augmentations.

Regarding whether you can put a Hideaway Limb Augmentation (or Prosthetic Limb) in a hand, I'd suggest that isn't allowed by the rules as they currently exist. Aside from the fact that in English, a 'limb' doesn't include hands or feet, there is text in the Polyhand and Climbing Suckers augmentations that explicitly provides an exception for a limb replacement also including a seperate hand/foot augmentation. The Polyhand text fairly clearly implies that, for example, a hand replacement is part of an Prosthetic Arm, and is not an independent slot.

That is to say, if you have something that takes up an arm slot, it usually prevents you from putting something in the hand slot as well. Those augmentations which can be combined are listed as exceptions.

Edit: Looking into it further, what I said previously may not be true. The slot for Prosthetic Limb is arm and hand or leg and foot, while Hideaway Limb and other augmentations specify only arm or leg. So you can't put a Hideaway Limb in a hand, but the hand slot could be entirely separate from the arm slot. The exceptions are probably only because of how Prosthetic Limbs work.

Kitsch Zero wrote:

The cost of the combination of Hideaway Limb and Prosthetic Limb may seem out of proportion with their individual costs, but that is because its price is probably linked to its utility, in terms of game balance. So, the hidden 1,200 cr cost is for that ability to double up augmentations.

Seems a little extreme, especially since the storage capacity of the hideaway/storage limbs are not even able to defeat a standard security checkpoint.

Also, you raised a good point about the prosthetics being both arm and hand, and leg and foot slots. According to RAW, my vesk with a missing hand can't JUST get a hand, he has to get the rest of his arm cut off and then the whole arm replaced. Unless I want to drop 71K for a Polyhand, there is no simple hand replacement, Luke Skywalker style.

Dracomicron wrote:
Kitsch Zero wrote:

The cost of the combination of Hideaway Limb and Prosthetic Limb may seem out of proportion with their individual costs, but that is because its price is probably linked to its utility, in terms of game balance. So, the hidden 1,200 cr cost is for that ability to double up augmentations.

Seems a little extreme, especially since the storage capacity of the hideaway/storage limbs are not even able to defeat a standard security checkpoint.

Also, you raised a good point about the prosthetics being both arm and hand, and leg and foot slots. According to RAW, my vesk with a missing hand can't JUST get a hand, he has to get the rest of his arm cut off and then the whole arm replaced. Unless I want to drop 71K for a Polyhand, there is no simple hand replacement, Luke Skywalker style.

Totally agree that the disparity does seem a little extreme, given scanners exist. I'd say this could all be fixed with a little errata, but I doubt they'd errata an item completely invalid. And with regards to your hand situation, with Armory coming out in a month or two, perhaps that could be rectified? Here's hoping!

Also, looking even further into options, I looked at all the boons available for Society, and for the relatively low price of 6 Fame, you can actually get someone to cast Regenerate on you, if you prefer the nice fleshy (or in your case, scaly) feel of your old appendage. Of course, I dunno if you're a Society player, so this may not even apply to you. If that is not the case though, I would like to humbly submit the club name of Out on a Limb.

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IfritSlasher wrote:

Totally agree that the disparity does seem a little extreme, given scanners exist. I'd say this could all be fixed with a little errata, but I doubt they'd errata an item completely invalid. And with regards to your hand situation, with Armory coming out in a month or two, perhaps that could be rectified? Here's hoping!

Also, looking even further into options, I looked at all the boons available for Society, and for the relatively low price of 6 Fame, you can actually get someone to cast Regenerate on you, if you prefer the nice fleshy (or in your case, scaly) feel of your old appendage. Of course, I dunno if you're a Society player, so this may not even apply to you. If that is not the case though, I would like to humbly submit the club name of Out on a Limb.

Oh, I'm not worried; Zoggy is only marginally hindered by the loss of a hand, since his minimum left-handed punching damage is more than most characters' maximum damage with a 2 handed weapon. He now has a Society boon to give a discount to augmentations, so I'm sure I'll get the situation sorted one way or another, but you're right, I'm hoping for a good option in the Armory.

Dracomicron wrote:
IfritSlasher wrote:

Totally agree that the disparity does seem a little extreme, given scanners exist. I'd say this could all be fixed with a little errata, but I doubt they'd errata an item completely invalid. And with regards to your hand situation, with Armory coming out in a month or two, perhaps that could be rectified? Here's hoping!

Also, looking even further into options, I looked at all the boons available for Society, and for the relatively low price of 6 Fame, you can actually get someone to cast Regenerate on you, if you prefer the nice fleshy (or in your case, scaly) feel of your old appendage. Of course, I dunno if you're a Society player, so this may not even apply to you. If that is not the case though, I would like to humbly submit the club name of Out on a Limb.

Oh, I'm not worried; Zoggy is only marginally hindered by the loss of a hand, since his minimum left-handed punching damage is more than most characters' maximum damage with a 2 handed weapon. He now has a Society boon to give a discount to augmentations, so I'm sure I'll get the situation sorted one way or another, but you're right, I'm hoping for a good option in the Armory.

Let's do the math here! Assuming Lv. 3 Soldier...

1 Base Damage + 5 Str Mod (18 + Stat Raising Augmentation) + 4 Vesk Weapon Specialization + 2 Melee Striker = 12 Min. Damage

Compared to my boy Felix and his signature pike...

8 Base Damage + 2 Str Mod + 3 Weapon Specialization + 1 Melee Striker = 12 Max Damage.

And considering I've done only about half the scenarios out there, you're probably higher than 3. ...Dang. Zoggy's got mad skills. XD

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IfritSlasher wrote:

Let's do the math here! Assuming Lv. 3 Soldier...

1 Base Damage + 5 Str Mod (18 + Stat Raising Augmentation) + 4 Vesk Weapon Specialization + 2 Melee Striker = 12 Min. Damage

Compared to my boy Felix and his signature pike...

8 Base Damage + 2 Str Mod + 3 Weapon Specialization + 1 Melee Striker = 12 Max Damage.

And considering I've done only about half the scenarios out there, you're probably higher than 3. ...Dang. Zoggy's got mad skills. XD

Zoggy just got to level 5, so it is a bit higher than that now, but even at level 3, his math was slightly different, because he's Armor Storm specialty, so his minimum was:

1 base damage +3 (specialization) +5 (Str 20), +2 (Melee Striker), +2 (Hammer Fist Melee Striker bonus) = 13 minimum damage.

Of course, Zoggy is dumb as a bag of hammers and routinely gets sent through the meat grinder (as exemplified by the Hellknight episode), so there is definitely a tradeoff to having ginormous punch damage.

In that ridiculously long conversion of shadowrun stuff, there's also a simple prosthetic hand replacement