Kind of upset.


Prerelease Discussion


I know I may not be the only one, but I have spent somewhere around $600 on all my Pathfinder books and was going to get more to complete my collection, and now you're going to make a 2nd edition and make us buy all new books?

Some may be usable with 2nd edition, but most books had some classes, feats, spells, etc (which is horrible by the way, scattering everything among so many books), so those will all have to be re-done with updated 2nd edition rules.

Money grab? I realize that a publisher needs to sell books to stay afloat, but come on. Make supplements, monster books, adventures, worlds, etc. Don't force people to re-buy everything.

May just stick with 1st edition.

Jon Brazer Enterprises

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Might I suggest sticking with 1e. If you are happy with it, then you have a complete game and unless you're a marathon gamer, you'll have material for years to come.

And even if you are a marathon gamer, then there's a whole world of Pathfinder Compatible books out there, such as those from my own company.

Some people have been playing the game for quite some time and want to see some changes to the system. It is perfectly understandable if you are not interested of them and you have lots of material to work if if you choose to stick with it.


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Look, if i could pick, yes i would prefer PF1 to continue, but if you stop to think about it:

1) PF1 remains its on thing, you can still play it, you dont need to go to PF2 if you dont want to. Quite sure those who dont like the changes will for example.

2) At which point do you assume they will stop making the books? Cause it has to end. Should they only ever stop making PF1 books if they go backrupt and then no more books are printed?

I mean D&D is on its "fifth" version for example.


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Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I was in the same position as you were and almost felt heartbroken, until I realized: I'm just going to play both editions. There's so many awesome adventures and character concepts for PF1 that I haven't had a chance to play yet, and so much cool stuff coming down the track with PF2, that it'd be cruel to have to pick one or the other. And given the demand for games online (have you seen how fast games fill up in the PbP forum?), I'm confident there will be opportunities for years to come.


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Perfectly fine to feel this way, though as others have pointed out, you've likely yet to scratch the true surface of possibility with the existing content available. 10 years of support is a respectable amount for a tabletop RPG to go through iterating on itself without making a full break. The material isn't going anywhere and if anything else, maybe PF1e will have its own little OSR-style community where entire games may be spun off it in the coming future to extend and build upon flawed concepts without necessarily making a clean break from it.

At the end of the day however, a clean break may or may not be a great thing. The idea may sound unappealing but perhaps the execution will soften or eliminate the blow.

After all, remember that the ruleset of the game you currently love was derived from a system which itself threw away and/or reimagined 25 years of mechanics and traditions to make a clean break on a new system and most people would agree that it certainly became a much better game because of it.


Mister Fowler wrote:

I know I may not be the only one, but I have spent somewhere around $600 on all my Pathfinder books and was going to get more to complete my collection, and now you're going to make a 2nd edition and make us buy all new books?

Some may be usable with 2nd edition, but most books had some classes, feats, spells, etc (which is horrible by the way, scattering everything among so many books), so those will all have to be re-done with updated 2nd edition rules.

Money grab? I realize that a publisher needs to sell books to stay afloat, but come on. Make supplements, monster books, adventures, worlds, etc. Don't force people to re-buy everything.

May just stick with 1st edition.

Decide once 2nd comes out, until then take advantage of the firesale of 1e books that is sure to occur. 2e seems different enough that having 1e and 2e could be worthwhile just to have variety.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Yeah, given how much existing content there is, I feel like the only thing you are actually losing is Pathfinder Society. Which I guess is gonna sting if you really like Pathfinder Society, but I imagine you can use meetup.com or something to find other people who prefer first edition.

And I gotta say, as someone who doesn't really care for society compared to the joy of a long running campaign, it has gotten harder to find people to play PF1 with. Very few of my friends actually prefer it since they switched to 5e. There are ways I could find strangers to play with, but I find that process emotionally exhausting and often leads to disappointment. I left the last game I joined with randos when I discovered one of the player's was more sympathetic to Nazis than gay people and the DM couldn't understand what was wrong with that.

I'm cool with using new books if it means more people will be playing the game, both due to the hype over a new edition and unnecessary complexity being removed.


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Mister Fowler wrote:

I know I may not be the only one, but I have spent somewhere around $600 on all my Pathfinder books and was going to get more to complete my collection, and now you're going to make a 2nd edition and make us buy all new books?

Some may be usable with 2nd edition, but most books had some classes, feats, spells, etc (which is horrible by the way, scattering everything among so many books), so those will all have to be re-done with updated 2nd edition rules.

Money grab? I realize that a publisher needs to sell books to stay afloat, but come on. Make supplements, monster books, adventures, worlds, etc. Don't force people to re-buy everything.

May just stick with 1st edition.

Try to look at it positively.

Until they made a 2nd edition, you could never complete your collection.

Now 1st edition will be finite. One day you can actually say, I own all of its books.


PF1 has not really aged all that well. As other systems have been developed and shown what quality of life improvements can be available to TTRPGs it has made what could have been done in Pathfinder originally. This is the perfect time for a 2nd edition, there is more than enough material to derive characters and adventures for years, and the developers have had plenty of time to experiment and improve on the issues in the original edition.

It is understandable to feel upset about Paizo no longer publishing 1E, but that doesn’t render your current collection obsolete. Those books still work, but they could not and should not publish books for the same system forever. After 20 years, it’s time for 3.X to be moved on from.


Honestly, there will be quite a long time before pf2e is able to replace pf1e in my mind. The option count just won't be there in the core book. Of course, that said, if you've spent that much money on pf1e books, then you are choosing to buy physical media because you like them on your shelf just as much as for the content (which is much cheaper via pdf, and even cheaper since most is available for free). That shelf will still be all full and fancy with the pf1e books on it.


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Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Mister Fowler wrote:
I know I may not be the only one, but I have spent somewhere around $600 on all my Pathfinder books and was going to get more to complete my collection, and now you're going to make a 2nd edition and make us buy all new books? (...) Don't force people to re-buy everything.

It's amazing to me that anyone could think they are being "forced" or "made" to do anything.

Mister Fowler, as many have already mentioned, you have 10 or 20 years of games ahead of you with existing Pathfinder materials from Paizo, not to mention the plethora of 3rd party publishers' offerings. Some of those 3pp will doubtless continue publishing adventures and other materials for PF1.0 as well. And the upcoming playtest materials are free to download, so you aren't even faced with this false problem until August 2019.


D&D books are never obsolete, I still reference previous edition D&D material (Basic, 1st, 2nd Ed) when I play PF1/3rd Ed and 5th Ed. Also, if you like the new edition, you can have fun converting PF1 material, like I am having a blast converting tons of 3rd Ed/PF1 material to 5th Ed; I look at 3rd Ed/PF1 as the secret sauce for 5th Ed.

You can also take things you might like from PF2 and port them over to PF1 (as I am looking forward to doing, and for 5th Ed), so, lot's of options. At this point, you can pretty much make an ideal d20 system, what with all the variants out there, and now another, new iteration.


Dude, try playing Magic: the Gathering sometime. $600? That's a cheap hobby.


I have probably spent double that amount on pf1e. When you consider that the game is over 10 years old, it averages to something like $10 per month. That isn't really much money.

I suppose if you started playing last year, you could be bummed out. And I spent more on Magic: the money pit.


RangerWickett wrote:
Dude, try playing Magic: the Gathering sometime. $600? That's a cheap hobby.

Ha, total, back in the day it cost me a pretty penny to get complete sets of Beta, Arabian Nights, Antiquities, Legends, and multiple copies of key cards (Juzam Djinns, Mana Drain, Dual Lands, etc).


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I'd be more upset if Paizo wasn't such an awesome company. :-)


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Mister Fowler wrote:
Don't force people to re-buy everything.

Wait... Paizo is sending the mafia to people's homes and leaving heads of dead horses on their beds?

That is pretty bad predatory marketing, Paizo. I suggest you stop doing that, and instead do something more user friendly, like giving us a free playtest book so we can see if we like it and decide to buy or not the whole thing, based on if we like it more than the books we already own


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With all of the PF1 material you could play for years if you they never release anything else. Nobody is forcing you to buy PF2 stuff. If you don't care for it take the PF2 AP's and convert them to PF 1 adventures


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We just started Rise of the Runelords a year ago. We're almost done with book two. I figure I've got at least three years left of this campaign. We're not going to switch midway through - why would we?

I have friends who I've been playing a long-running GURPS Supers game with. That campaign, all told, is over twenty years old. We're still using GURPS 3e. And have no intention of switching.

Your books are still your books. You and your friends can still play whatever version of the game you want to play.


Now that people talk about it... I seriously never thought about playing both PF1 AND PF2. But that would be a very good idea. I like PF1, I'm starting to get to know enough rules to play it correctly, and that would be a shame to start over.

The only thing that upsets me is that PF1 will not be "maintained" when PF2 will be out. We will probably not have new APs PF1-compatible, and there is still a bunch of things that would need enhancement and/or rebalancing in PF1. New mechanics that could be added to PF1 too. But I guess this will need houserulling from now out.

I'm not angry. Just a little sad


Almarane wrote:

Now that people talk about it... I seriously never thought about playing both PF1 AND PF2. But that would be a very good idea. I like PF1, I'm starting to get to know enough rules to play it correctly, and that would be a shame to start over.

The only thing that upsets me is that PF1 will not be "maintained" when PF2 will be out. We will probably not have new APs PF1-compatible, and there is still a bunch of things that would need enhancement and/or rebalancing in PF1. New mechanics that could be added to PF1 too. But I guess this will need houserulling from now out.

I'm not angry. Just a little sad

To this date, there is enough 3rd Ed/PF1 material to keep you entertained for many lifetimes. I mean, to actually use all the material, wow, could take centuries (millennia?).

Shadow Lodge

10 years is a long run for an RPG. Look at the history of D&D: 3e lasted 3 years before 3.5, which ran 5 years. 4e ran 6 years, 5e now has been out for 4years. So pathfinder went twice the length of all the recent d&d editions.

Grand Lodge

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Weather Report wrote:
Almarane wrote:

Now that people talk about it... I seriously never thought about playing both PF1 AND PF2. But that would be a very good idea. I like PF1, I'm starting to get to know enough rules to play it correctly, and that would be a shame to start over.

The only thing that upsets me is that PF1 will not be "maintained" when PF2 will be out. We will probably not have new APs PF1-compatible, and there is still a bunch of things that would need enhancement and/or rebalancing in PF1. New mechanics that could be added to PF1 too. But I guess this will need houserulling from now out.

I'm not angry. Just a little sad

To this date, there is enough 3rd Ed/PF1 material to keep you entertained for many lifetimes. I mean, to actually use all the material, wow, could take centuries (millennia?).

Also, I would be very surprised if, a month or two after the first 2E AP is released, someone hasn't posted a 2E to 1E conversion of it. And most likely posted somewhere on this site. We have an incredibly industrious and generous fan base here.


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$600? I've spent far more than that on old 2e books; my most recent purchase was just a year or so back. And that edition hasn't been in print since 1999.

The creation of new editions doesn't mean you can't keep buyinng books for older editions, nor does it mean that you have to stop playing older editions. Heck, I still convert Planescape adventures to new editions so I can keep playong old favorites.

Don't lament the creating of a new edition. The fact of a new edition doesn't preclude.you from enjoying the older editions - it just means there's even more for you to have fun with! :)

Grand Lodge

As someone heavily invested in PFS, I am rather saddened by the move to 2E. So far I have only liked maybe 20% of what I have seen them post for 2E, and unless there is some MAJOR design changes during the playtest, I currently have zero interest in ever converting over to 2E.

Grand Lodge

Slyme wrote:
As someone heavily invested in PFS, I am rather saddened by the move to 2E. So far I have only liked maybe 20% of what I have seen them post for 2E, and unless there is some MAJOR design changes during the playtest, I currently have zero interest in ever converting over to 2E.

So far I've liked everything I've seen in the blogs and plan on going all in unless they make a bunch of major design changes. I don't think they're going to do that though. I think they are going to fine tune the system they have and make minor changes where necessary so that they have a solid foundation on which to build the next 10 years of Pathfinder.

I plan on buying the last few books of the current edition and then starting fresh with Pathfinder 2E. I love how they've grown Pathfinder over the last 10 years but Pathfinder was a patch for a game system that was showing it's age when Pathfinder was born 10 years ago. I'm not surprised that they waited until the 10 year anniversary to make a solid break and move forward with Paizo's vision of what a game system could be. It's not too hard to see where Pathfinder 1E's limitations, inherited from 3.X, are becoming noticeably difficult to design around. It is simply time to start from scratch and build a new system that takes into account not only 20 years of 3.X and Pathfinder but 20 years of game design in general.

I still have dozens of characters that I'd like to run in Pathfinder right now. I still have years to do so. I have at least 2 years of Pathfinder campaigns to run before I'll need new material. I'm going to use that time to learn the new system by participating in Pathfinder Society. I really like the idea of starting at ground floor and working my way up. I wasn't able to do that with Pathfinder 1E.

I was going to port most of the Pathfinder classes over to Starfinder since that ruleset resolves most of the issues that I had with Pathfinder. I was going to make it my go to rule system for everything. I've changed my mind now that Pathfinder 2E is coming. I've decided to let Starfinder be Starfinder. There's no need to saddle it with Pathfinder's baggage when I can use it to explore new concepts within Starfinder's own paradigm.

I'm going to buy Book of the Damned, Ultimate Wilderness and Planar Adventures to round out my hardback collection. Those hardbacks will always have a place on my limited shelf space. I'll finish grabbing a few PDFs and physical copies of the things I like the most while I wait for Second Edition to start.

I'm looking forward to Pathfinder Second Edition and I'll have Pathfinder First Edition for many more years.

Unless Paizo send ninjas to destroy the physical and digital copies of all the stuff I've bought over the last ten years. If that is a thing that happens then...

Roll Initiative!

SM

Grand Lodge

I've only liked a couple things I've seen come out of the blog...most of it I absolutely hate. I made the mistake of buying into Starfinder early, and wish I could return the stuff I did buy, as I will probably never use it again. I've played about 6 sessions of Starfinder, and have zero desire to go back for any more.

I look forward to playing 1E PFS for as long as the local GMs continue to run games of it. Thankfully, there is enough material to keep me going for a good long time.


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StarMartyr365 wrote:

I'm looking forward to Pathfinder Second Edition and I'll have Pathfinder First Edition for many more years.

Unless Paizo send ninjas to destroy the physical and digital copies of all the stuff I've bought over the last ten years. If that is a thing that happens then...

Roll Initiative!

Yes, apparently they rappel from the ceiling as if from nowhere, knock you out, and you wake to your books having been confiscated and all PDF files deleted, I hear it can be quite traumatic, sort of like alien abductions.

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