| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Scott Wilhelm and I were discussing this in a different thread, figured we should just start a thread specific to our discussion instead of further derailing the other one.
Swordtrained: Tengus are trained from birth in swordplay, and as a result are automatically proficient with sword-like weapons (including bastard swords, daggers, elven curve blades, falchions, greatswords, kukris, longswords, punching daggers, rapiers, scimitars, short swords, and two-bladed swords).
We were talking about a Tengu Magus using a bastard sword, and using it as a one handed weapon due to his swordtrained ability.
I would never stop a player at my table from doing it like that if I was GM, but I still believe that despite this ability, the Tengu would still need EWP to use a bastard sword in one hand.
The ability says he is proficient with bastard swords, by name even. I fully understand that. But you can use a bastard sword without EWP as a martial 2H weapon, and his swordtrained ability you allow him to use it as a martial 2H weapon in a class without martial weapon proficiency. But to use the special features of the bastard sword, I still believe you need EWP.
He can use the Elven Curveblade and the Falcata as if he had EWP for those, but they don't have special abilities that require feats to unlock. You can get EWP as a half elf, you can get it twice as a human, just in alternative racial features, but they give you the actual feat. The Tengu swordtrained ability does not have any wording saying or implying that it counts as or acts as EWP.
Any official ruling on this?
Thoughts?
Check the weapon table.
A bastard sword isn't a martial two-handed weapon that you can additionally wield one-handed as an exotic weapon. It's the other way around--a bastard sword is an exotic one-handed weapon that you can additionally wield two-handed as a martial weapon. The default state of the weapon is "exotic one-handed weapon", so any ability that grants proficiency with the bastard sword specifically will effectively grant you Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword).
Yeah, agreed with above
Check the weapon table.
A bastard sword isn't a martial two-handed weapon that you can additionally wield one-handed as an exotic weapon. It's the other way around--a bastard sword is an exotic one-handed weapon that you can additionally wield two-handed as a martial weapon. The default state of the weapon is "exotic one-handed weapon", so any ability that grants proficiency with the bastard sword specifically will effectively grant you Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword).
That clears that up, I suppose.
I must have been thinking about the katana, which I would also assume the Tengu are proficient with. Or easily could be with their alternative racial ability Exotic Weapon Training, but even that still doesn't say it acts or counts as EWP for the chosen weapons.
Exotic Weapon Training: Instead of swords, some tengus are trained in exotic weaponry. Such tengus choose a number of eastern weapons equal to 3 + their Intelligence bonus, and gain proficiency with these weapons. This racial trait replaces swordtrained.
I wouldn't stop anyone that is playing a Tengu from using a bastard sword or katana or Estoc as a one handed weapon, even if they didn't have EWP for the katana or Estoc, I was just curious if there's anything official said about it.
There's probably not, given that nobody play Tengu and nobody cares about swords or those who use them. Could bet your bottom dollar that if his racial ability was called Spelltrained, there'd be plenty of clarification on it, though.
Tengus are proficient with katanas as they are swords. The eastern weapons just allows for weapons like the naginata that aren't swords.
FAQ supporting the above posters - proficiency gained as it is listed in the tables.
Righteous. Thank you.