Can "Rime Spell" be used on an "Elemental (Cold)" spell in PFS?


Rules Questions


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I can't seem to find any errata that says changing a spell's damage type changes it's spell descriptor.

Rime Spell wrote:

Benefit: The frost of your cold spell clings to the target, impeding it for a short time. A rime spell causes creatures that takes cold damage from the spell to become entangled for a number of rounds equal to the original level of the spell.

This feat only affects spells with the cold descriptor. A rime spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.
Elemental Spell wrote:
Benefit: Choose one energy type: acid, cold, electricity, or fire. You may replace a spell's normal damage with that energy type or split the spell's damage, so that half is of that energy type and half is of its normal type. An elemental spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.


my understanding is that no, it cannot. the Elemental Spell feat does not grant the modified spell the [cold] (or any other) descriptor. it only changes the spell's damage type.


Yeah, it's an unfortunate side effect Elemental Spell not changing the descriptor of the spell (which it REALLY should).

It causes other wonky things, too, like Red Draconic Sorcerers to be able to change the elemental type of a fire spell to cold and still get their extra damage, since it still has the fire descriptor.

It really doesn't make much sense, but thems the RAW.

The "Freezing Spells" oracle revelation from Waves and Winter, however, depends on the damage type being dealt to the enemy and not the descriptor.

Edit: Also, flagged for rules forum.

Grand Lodge

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Surely this is a scenario where common sense overrules RAW?

Grand Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Andrei Buters wrote:
Surely this is a scenario where common sense overrules RAW?

To the hardcore Rules Lawyers, there are no such things.

This answer was provided instead of just posting pained and overwhelming laughter.

Sczarni

Try to flag a post in the Rules Forum for an FAQ.

(or this one, since it'll likely get moved anyways)


Nefreet wrote:

Try to flag a post in the Rules Forum for an FAQ.

(or this one, since it'll likely get moved anyways)

the only reason I posted it here was because I want to use it in PFS

Sczarni

The problem is that this isn't a Rules Forum.

Every day people post rules questions here, thinking PFS has some sort of rules system different from Pathfinder (it doesn't). And every day moderators move those posts to the Rules Forum (which I hope is the case with this one).

If you have a Pathfinder rules question, ask it in the Rules Forum.

If you have a PFS-specific question, ask it here.

The question you asked in the OP is not PFS-specific.


Nefreet wrote:

The problem is that this isn't a Rules Forum.

Every day people post rules questions here, thinking PFS has some sort of rules system different from Pathfinder (it doesn't). And every day moderators move those posts to the Rules Forum (which I hope is the case with this one).

If you have a Pathfinder rules question, ask it in the Rules Forum.

If you have a PFS-specific question, ask it here.

The question you asked in the OP is not PFS-specific.

Ah, that makes sense. If it helps, I flagged my initial post as "in the wrong forum"

Grand Lodge

The other ridiculous thing, on that, is you could, technically, change a {Cold} spell to do fire or acid damage, but still make it Rime, as well.....


Yeah this has been long noted as a peculiarity of the Elemental Spell feat. The Admixture specialist wizard has a school ability that allows you to do something similar, without changing the spell level, a certain number of times per day, and it specifies that the spell discriptor changes. Oddly, these two contradictory abilities are found in the same book (APG).


kinevon wrote:
The other ridiculous thing, on that, is you could, technically, change a {Cold} spell to do fire or acid damage, but still make it Rime, as well.....

Sort of. The spell still needs to do some cold damage to have any effect per the description of Rime spell. You could make it half cold and half another and it would work.


If you aren't a sorcerer already could take a level 1 dip as an elemental sorcerer (crossblooded with draconic for more oomph and to lessen the pain of a dip). The Elemental bloodline does change the descriptor.


You could pull off this trick with an Admixture specialist wizard

Spoiler:
Versatile Evocation (Su): When you cast an evocation spell that does acid, cold, electricity, or fire damage, you may change the damage dealt to one of the other four energy types. This changes the descriptor of the spell to match the new energy type. Any non-damaging effects remain unchanged unless the new energy type invalidates them (an ice storm that deals fire damage might still provide a penalty on Perception checks due to smoke, but it would not create difficult terrain). Such effects are subject to GM discretion. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.

since this ability changes the damage type and the descriptor. It might be worth a level dip, if you really need to flesh out your spell list with viable options for Rime spell feat. Assuming you have a decent int....and aren't already a wizard of another flavor... and are cool with a level loss...


The problem is that at the moment you memorize the spell it is not a cold spell yet. And the feat states that it only affects spells with the cold descriptor. It is up to interpretation what that means. Can you add rime to a non cold spell and it just doesn't doe anything? Or is even that impossible?
Because if you can't add rime to the spell in the first hand it doesn't matter if it turns into a cold spell later.


You should be able to apply it, even if it has no effect.

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