Sorry for making two post....this is for another game ^^
I am looking for Good level 20 Reach weapon Build that uses only skill weapon and raw muscle and agility
I wanna try something that uses Multiple classes and or dips
A Pike and shield build is kinda what i'm look for
but i want it to be more than just (X levels of fighter or some other class) I want a good Ac and good offense
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I have a few thoughts.
Half orc, sanctified slayer, rage domain, amplified rage. This is like being an inquisitor, slayer, barbarin with no multi classing. Grab power attack, combat ref, outflank, etc.
Option 2
UnMonk + barbarian + anything with channel to grab crusaders furry. Now you can rage a flurry with a long spear. Inquisitor, cleric, bard, oracles, can all use this really well.
If any of these sound interesting I can offer more info.
I don't know what skill weapon means I assume a typo so I can't be of more help yet.
@ Grandlounge
I like the sound of option two
tell me more please
I couldn't fit in your agility but here we go.
Classes:
Virtuous Bravo Paladin 2/ Steelblood Bloodrager 6/ High Guardian Fighter 2/ Dragon Disciple 10
Stat priority:
Cha>Str>Con>Wis>Dex>Int
Dex should be 13 and no higher
Feats:
Fey Foundling, Weapon Focus, Shield Focus, Shield Brace, Combat Expertise, Dodge or Artful Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack, Combat Patrol, Lunge
Traits:
Magical Knack and your campaign trait
The Fighter archetype will let you use combat reflexes, which it gives, using your Str modifier. The Paladin dip will let you add Cha to saves and the archetype lets you qualify for Int feats using Cha. The Bloodrager archetype lets you cast in heavy armor and is your path of entry into Dragon Disciple. If an opponent somehow gets within 5ft of you, you can just bite them. At 19th level you get a permanent fly speed. Your bloodline has to be draconic so no abyssal arms. This build should have enough magic to stay relevant. Make sure to buff yourself before combat.
Unless you take Martial Artist Monk or Bloodrager over Barbarian, you can't be Monk and Barbarian without some heavy roleplay bringing you from Lawful to non-Lawful.
What are you looking for in a reach weapon? It can be rather annoying to fight as one when you get swarmed, and its main ability is to keep extending reach, while usually leads to Combat Patrol.
As for class dips, High Guardian fighter can give you Strength for Combat Reflexes, allowing you to not need Dex. A magic using class might be useful too, since Enlarge Person can increase your size and reach (20ft with a reach weapon).
For feats, look at Lunge/Monkey Lunge for more range. Weapon Trick (Polearm-Choke Up) or Shield Brace allows you to use a Shield along with your 2handed reach weapon, allowing you to threaten 5ft away from you that the reach weapon normally misses. This also opens up Shield Master and TWF possbilities. You might want to be a Fighter for the feats needed and a constant bonus to attack.
@ Sorrysleeping
Lets say I do go fighter.
and say I make this a build at level 8, 10, 12 and 14
what would be some very good feats for a pole-arm user
So for the basics.
Unmonk (scaled fist for a cha build)
Barbarian (savage technologist for str dex) Urban bloodrager, rage domaim or furious guardian are alignment free subsitutes their is no rule for heavy roll playing for alignment change just ask your Dm. I can thing on many reasons a character would leave a monetary. It was destroyed, love, freedom, philosophical differences etc.
Feats: power attack, weapon focus
combat ref, extra rage, crusader flurry,
Traits: magical knack, fates favoed.
I would grab oracle level war sighted life sport revelation for channel.
You can swap barbarian for furious guardian/ ulfen guardian. It is worth considering living monoloth. Even rage prophet if you like.
Here is what round one looks like. Free rage Swift enlarge (living monolith), move martial flexibility (dedicated adversary, divine power standard.
+2 rage, +2 furious, +2 dedicated adversary, +6 divine power (cast before rage).
All iterative attack divine power attack and flurry attack.
The bard uses arcane healer flag bearer, banner of ancient king.
Cleric or shamman look like the above.!use base unmonk. Clerks can use domains like rage or heroism or evanglist with flag bearer banner of ancient king. Shamans use battle and life or which doctor. Battle gives access to bane.
JuliusCromwell wrote: @ Sorrysleeping
Lets say I do go fighter.
and say I make this a build at level 8, 10, 12 and 14
what would be some very good feats for a pole-arm user
My favorite Reach Polearm is the Lucerne Hammer: 1d12 Piercing or Bludgeoning Damage, Reach and Brace. My second place is Horsechopper: 1d10 Slashing, Reach and Tripping.
I like the Phalanx Soldier Archetype. At level 3, you can use a Pole Arm in 1 Hand and a Shield in the other. At level 5, you can Ready your Pole Arm as an Immediate Action, the better to surprise a Charging opponent with your Brace Pole Arm! How cool would that be to spring that on a Charging opponent: they think you aren't Ready, so they Charge. Then as an Immediate Action, you whip out your Lucerne Hammer and Attack as a Readied Action for Double Damage. Then as they leave your Threatened Square to try to close with you, you get an Attack of Opportunity to hit them again for Double Damage again
I like the Phalanx Formation Feat. It lets you Attack with your Reach Pole Arm from behind your Ally without your Ally providing Cover to your opponents.
I like the Shield Slam Feat. Every hit with your Shield Bash also gives you a free Bull Rush. Bull Rush opponents away from you to be tenderized by your Lucerne Hammer! Take the Greater Bull Rush Feat, and all your Allies get Attacks of Opportunity whenever you Bull Rush Somebody. Take Paired Opportunist, and you get an AoO, too.
Paired Opportunist is a Teamwork Feat, o make good on it, you should probably take it via 3 levels in Inuisitor, Paladin, or Warpriest (There are Paladin and Warpriest Archetypes that grant Tactician.) or 1 level in Cavalier. Still another option might be to take the Eldritch Guardian Fighter Archetype, and take a Mauler Familiar. Eldritch Gaurdian Familiars know all the Combat Feats you know. Cavalier is good to look at because it only costs a 1 level dip. Warpriest is good to look at because you can use Sacred Weapon on your Shield or Armor Spikes and do more Damage. Inquisitor is good to look at because Solo Tactics works on all your Teamwork Feats where Tactician only works on 1, so you can also take Harder they Fall to be able to Bull Rush or Trip oversized opponents, Coordinated Maneuvers for an extra +2 Bonus to your CMB, and Broken Wing Gambit for another Attack of Opportunity trigger. Also, with 2 more levels in Inquisitor, you can put Bane on your Weapon, which might be nice to offset your shield's or Armor Spikes' low Damage.
I like Great Cleave. You might close to be adjacent to your opponents so that you also have opponents 10' away. That way you can Cleave opponents 5' and 10' away alike, some with your Pole Arm, some with your Shield or Armor Spikes. If you are doing that Shield Slam thing, you can also incorporate Bull Rushes and AoOs from that.
I like the Hamatula Strike Feat. It gives you a free Grapple with every hit with a Piercing Weapon. If you are wearing Armor Spikes, every Grapple Attack also does 1d6(+any bonuses) Armor Spike Damage. So you might skewer your opponent on your Lucerne Hammer, Grapple them and drag them to you with your Grapple, skewer them again on your Armor Spikes, then hit them with your Light Spiked, Baned Shield, skewering them again with your Armor Spikes, then also Bull Rushing them away from you, provoking Attacks of Opportunity from your Allies and you, and you skewer them again...
Thunderlord already mentioned Lunge. You might look at Monkey Lunge, which lets you Lunge without taking an AC Penalty.
If you dip a level in Living Monolith, you can Enlarge Person as a Swift Action SLA. That will increase your Reach by 5' in a way that will stack with Lunge and your Reach Pole Arm. Plus, your Base Damage will increase. If you dip even 1 level in Ranger, you might use a Wand of Lead Blades which will also increase the Base Damage of your weapons in a way that will stack with Enlarge Person.
I have probably offered too many ideas to fit into 1 character, so you shouldn't think of this as a single build, but rather outlining many of a lot of possible builds.
JuliusCromwell wrote: I am looking for Good level 20 Reach weapon Build that uses only skill weapon and raw muscle and agility
I wanna try something that uses Multiple classes and or dips
I know you are partial to Pole Arms, but I should tell you that the reachiest Reach Weapon of all is the Whip. They have these Whip Mastery Feats that let you extend your Reach to ridiculous amounts that will also stack with things like Lunge and Enlarge Person. Whips don't do much for Damage, you would take levels in Warpriest and do Sacred Weapon Damage instead of Whip Damage. Whips are also Trip and Disarming weapons, so you have good debuffing and AoO potential.
Another pole arm to look at, even though this doesn't give Reach is the Halberd. It does 1d10 Piercing or Slashing, and because it doesn't have Reach, you could 2 Weapon fight with Halberd and Shield, using either Shield Bash or Armor Spikes for your off-hand weapon.
Then, rather than Attack with Reach, you just take the Quickdraw and Precise Shot feats. In stead of poking opponnets with your Reach, just throw javelins at them.
SorrySleeping wrote:
What are you looking for in a reach weapon? It can be rather annoying to fight as one when you get swarmed, and its main ability is to keep extending reach, while usually leads to Combat Patrol.
Spear Dancing Spiral gives you the option to use a reach weapon as a non-reach weapon.
If you are a fighter, it also gives you the option to use Trained Grace.
can I Get some help with a Fighter build
I am not sure of what all Feat I need for a Good pike and shield build
JuliusCromwell wrote: can I Get some help with a Fighter build
I am not sure of what all Feat I need for a Good pike and shield build
Well, I did just give you some help with a fighter pole arm build. What more do you need? Would you like to see a fleshed-out build?
@ Scott Wilhelm
Yes I'd like to see a fleshed out build
I have trouble understanding what feats take and when to take them :/
JuliusCromwell wrote: can I Get some help with a Fighter build
I am not sure of what all Feat I need for a Good pike and shield build
You want a Dex focused build if you decide to go TWF, since you need high dex for combat reflexes and TWF requirements. You want a decent Str, since you will be getting 1.5x damage with your glaive. Remember to pick up a light shield so you can use your Dex to hit with it.
Shield and Pike build needs Shield Brace (to use a shield), Shield Bash (to use a shield and keep shield AC), and TWF first. At level 5 you want to pick up the feat Advance Weapon Training and get Effortless-Dual Wield in order to lower your attack penalties.
Improved/Great TWF are your most important feats, allowing you to get extra attacks in your turn. After those, you want to grab Shield Slam and Shield Master. Shield Slam lets you push enemies back, allowing you to hit them with your reach weapon instead.
Human Fighter, Dex > Str(min 14) > Con >Mental Stats
1 - Weapon Focus (Glaive), Weapon Finesse, Bladed Bash
2 - Shield Focus
3 - Shield Brace (Allows for 1.5x Str damage on Glaive)
4 - Improved Shield Bash (Keeps Shield AC while using shield to hit)
5 - Advance Weapon Training (Effortless Dual Wielding)
Class feature Weapon Training (Polearms)
6 - Shield Slam
7 - Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
8 - Power Attack
9 - Improved Bullrush
Class feature Weapon Training (Close weapons)
10 -Advance Weapon Training (Trained Grace)*
11 - Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
12 - Shield Master
*The build and damage is behind Trained Grace and Duelist's Gloves. You double your weapon training bonus to damage if you use Dex to hit and Str to damage. With 14 Str at level 10, You'll be getting +20 to damage from Strength, Power Attack, and Trained Grace (for your polearm). The point of your shield is to get a free bullrush with Shield Slam to put them in range of your Glaive.
@ SorrySleeping
Thanks.
anything else i should know?
Should I Don Armor Spikes?
Okay, let's put some builds together.
Human
1Ranger1: Freebooter's Bane, Point Blank Shot, Quickdraw
So, I'm envisioning a MAD character: high Dex and St, say 16 and 14. Making PFS characters, I find there aren't any bonuses that I really don't want. Anyway, in a point buy system, excetionally high ability scores usually go with ecxeptionally high prices, and exceptionally low scores in other areas. This character at this point is mostly a Ranged Fighter that can switch quickly to sword and board, or fight with Spear and shield, throwing weapons as he approaches, and then drawing the morning star or longsword after throwing that last Axe. Freebooter is a Ranger Archetype, and Freebooter's Bane replaces Favored Enemy. You and all your friends get a +1 Attack and Damage against any target you pick as a Move Action, and it lasts until you pick a new one. It's lovely.
Plus, Pathfinder Society is a campaign with readily available magic items, especially minor magic items like Wands with Level 1 Spells. Get yourself a Wand of Lead Blades so your Morning Star does 2d6. So will your arrows with a Wand of Gravity Bow. A Classic is to get a Wand of Cure Light Wounds. As you can afford it, acquire a Wand of Bloodhound to get the Scent Ability, maybe take the Blind Fighting Feat at some point, so you will be effective with the lights out.
2R2: Precise Shot
A must-have for a character to be effective at range.
3R3: Endurance, 2 Weapon
Endurance lets you sleep in your armor without waking up fatigued. Do you know that shiver down your spine when you see that gleam in your GM's eye as he asks, "Are you sleeping in your armor?" I do.
With a Dex of 18, I'd just wear a Chain Shirt and be done with it. With a Dex of only 14, I benefit from wearing an Agile Breastplate. I'd also benefit from Full Plate, but Endurance doesn't help with that. For that, you need to dip a level in Paladin, Magus, or something and get a Wand of Swift Girding. You sleep naked, but when you are awoken by Wandering Monsters, you can suit up with Swift Girding as a Standard Action instead of the many minutes it usually takes to dress in Heavy Armor.
This is what will let you enter into melee safely. I would use Armor Spikes as an Off-Hand Weapon.
4R3F1: Shield Focus
5R3F2: Shield Brace
This lets you fight with Halberd and Shield. If you use your Wand of Lead Blades, your Halberd will do 2d8. You can also use Lucerne Hammer and Shield, but personally, I think when you run into someone that has more Reach than you, just shoot them.
6R3F3: Weapon Focus Halberd
7R3F3Monk1: Unarmed 1d6, monk stuff, Improved Grapple, Greater Grapple
8R3F4M1: Hamatula Strike
With Hamatula Strike, every time you hit someone with a Piercing Weapon such as a Halberd or Armor Spikes, you get a Free Grapple Check. When you have Armor Spikes, you do an extra 1d6 every time you get a successful Grapple Attack.
9R3F4M1Living Monolith1: Iron Will, Soul Stone: Enlarge Person SLA as a Swift Action and +2 save vs. Mind effects
In addition to giving you a +1 Damage and +2 CMB (Grappling), Enlarge Person gives you an extra 5' Reach and your Halberd's base damage will go up to 2d8 or 3d8 if you also use that Wand of Lead Blades: They Stack. You can also shoot arrows that d 3d6. Mark Seifter told me that he used to carry around a quiverfull of Size Large Arrows, drop them, Enlarge, and then pick them up and shoot with them. You Armor Spikes will do 2d6.
So here is a character that is highly effective at melee and range with multiple high-damage attacks, has a 10' Reach, has 3 good saving throws, and has other tactical tricks to play as well.
JuliusCromwell wrote:
@ SorrySleeping
Thanks.
anything else i should know?
Should I Don Armor Spikes?
I see armor spikes are cheesy. You have your shield to threaten next to you, so you don't need them for that. I also don't believe armor spikes can be put on light armor, which is what you will want for this build seeing as you will have a high dex.
Make sure you worship Shelyn for Bladed Brush. (Have to be within one step of NG). Make sure one of your big items when you start being able to afford 10-15k is Duelist gloves. This item is amazing.
Dex before Str. Dex is your to hit, and you are taking a -4 to hit until level 5, plus power attack penalties (if you decide to use it).
My PFS reach dude. Not exactly brute strength, but I did throw a minotaur 60' once. 30' reach with full threaten is pretty good.
SorrySleeping wrote: I see armor spikes are cheesy. You are calling my armor spikes cheesy? Because they don't fit in your little box like a Pringle?
Pringle.
SorrySleeping wrote: You have your shield to threaten next to you, so you don't need them for that. You do Threaten with your Shield, but you also lose your Shield Bonus to AC Bonus if you attack with your Shield unless you take the Improved Shield Bash Feat. Using Armor Spikes instead saves you the Feat.
Also, you can't 2 weapon fight with your shield as an off-hand weapon unless it is a Light Shield. Taking Armor Spikes allows you to use a Heavy Shield and gives you another AC Point.
Since the OP is considering using a Reach Pole Arm, he needs to consider the possibility that someone will get inside his Reach, and in that case, he might consider 2 weapon fighting, and that case, he still might use his Armor Spikes as his off-hand weapon whether he is using a Heavy or Light shield.
SorrySleeping wrote: I also don't believe armor spikes can be put on light armor, which is what you will want for this build seeing as you will have a high dex. Interesting. I'm not aware of that rule. Would you please quote where you found it?
My advice was that he wear Medium Armor, actually a Breastplate will give him is full Dex bonus to AC as long as his Dex is 16 or less. I would call 16 a high Dex for a Fighter. And if he is taking more than 3 levels in Fighter, he should be able to gain a max dex bonus bonus due to Armor Training, meaning his Breastplate will grant him his full Dex Bonus to AC even if his Dex is 18, which is also a high Dex for a Fighter.
But I must admit, I did not look super closely at your build. You might have a completely different, but very good reason for recommending light armor.
@ Sorry Sleeping,
I just had a look at your build, and I do think it's pretty cool.
Using Bladed Brush to use a Glaive as a 1 handed, finesseable slashing weapon is inspired, and it makes me think that maybe using a Chain Shirt intead of an Agile Breastplate might be justified in your build.
What it makes me think would be cool is to make this character an Unchained Rogue, so you can do Dex-to-Damage with your Reach Glaive. Maybe a Halfling for extra Dex, work in some features to lock in your Sneak Attack Damage.
Another idea that struck me would be to take some levels in Monk Master of Many Styles and take Panther Style Feats to ge lots of Free Action Attacks and Ascetic Style to be able to make those Attacks with your Glaive. You can only use Ascetic Style with Monk Weapons, and I'm pretty sure Glaive isn't one, but since you are thinking Human, you could take Martial Versatility and apply Ascetic Style to all the weapons in the same group, so take Ascetic Style for something like Tiger Fork or Naginata, then take Martial Versatility for Tiger Fork so you can also use it for any other Pole Weapon like your Glaive. Anyway, now you can use your high-damage Reach Pole Arm to get a whole bunch of extra attacks. You can get Evasion, which can't otherwise be used unless you are wearing Light or No armor, and maybe work in Some SAD.
I noticed you are taking Shield Slam and Improved Bull Rush. People have argued to me that your +2 from IBR cannot be applied to the Shield-Bash-Bull Rush because of the mechanics of Shield Slam. I disagree with those people, but you should be aware that IBR + SS is controversial. Even if a GM does disallow it, though, it would still be worthwhile if you also take Greater Bull Rush, which will still grant all your Allies Attacks of Opportunity even if you don't get the (now)+4 bonus to your Bull Rushes. For a build like this, I like to work in 3 levels in Inquisitor or something to get Paired Opportunist so I can get an AoO along with my allies. Further, I envision getting a Flanking Buddy. You Slam your victim into your Allie, giving him an Attack of Opportunity, and you get one, too. Your AoO is yet another Shield Slam, and then you and your Allies loop Attacks of Opportunity for as long as your Combat Reflexes holds out. I envisoned this for a Tunder and Fang build.
You're giving me something to think about. I hope I have done the same.
@ sorry sleeping. I really like the build idea
can you show me a level 20 version
My group talked and we might to a level 20 game soon
Scott Wilhelm wrote: SorrySleeping wrote: You have your shield to threaten next to you, so you don't need them for that. You do Threaten with your Shield, but you also lose your Shield Bonus to AC Bonus if you attack with your Shield unless you take the Improved Shield Bash Feat. Using Armor Spikes instead saves you the Feat. You also loose the ability to use Shield Slam to push your opponent back, allowing you to continue your attack with your pike or putting your opponent in an undesirable position. Possibly even prone.
Scott, first Greater TWF requires 19 dex. 16 Dex won't even give you Improved TWF. This is a Dex focused build with enough Strength to pick up power attack.
Also the build requires Improved Shield Bash. I am talking about a TWF (two weapon fighting) build. Shield Master requires Shield Bash and removes TWF penalties (for the shield) when TWF. This and Shield Slam (free bull rush on shield slam) focuses an opponent back into the reach of your glaive. As for the feat cost, there is a reason this is a Fighter build and not a Barbarian, Monk, or whatever else build.
I mainly put Improved Bull Rush to get Greater Bull Rush later on. You many want to take another look at Panther Style. It really isn't worth it to be constantly provoking attacks, since that just means more dice rolled at you, and more chance of it being a critical. Also most enemies don't have Combat Reflexes, so you generally get 1 attack from each opponent.
Juluis, I'd push into Outflank (if your allies take it too), Critical Feats (Glaive is 18-20, or 15-20 if you make it Keen), and Greater Bull Rush + Bull Rush Strike.
You have the "core" build at this point, I normally branch out to take other feats. You can take Advance Armor Training and Advance Weapon Training to get fun effects or use them to start gaining skill points and not be a "meat head fighter". I personally like to pick up the Eldritch Heritage line of feats and swap out base Bloodline Power for a Familiar (great for role playing).
If you want more combat feats, go Weapon Focus/Weapon Specialization and the greater versions for more bonuses to attack and damage rolls.
Volkard Abendroth wrote: Scott Wilhelm wrote: SorrySleeping wrote: You have your shield to threaten next to you, so you don't need them for that. You do Threaten with your Shield, but you also lose your Shield Bonus to AC Bonus if you attack with your Shield unless you take the Improved Shield Bash Feat. Using Armor Spikes instead saves you the Feat. You also loose the ability to use Shield Slam to push your opponent back, allowing you to continue your attack with your pike or putting your opponent in an undesirable position. Possibly even prone. If you are planning on having a Shield Bash build anyway, then Improved Shield Bash is not a wasted Feat. My point here is that there are lots of reasons to use Armor Spikes, and it is not appropriate to dismiss them as cheesy just because they don't fit into your particular build.
SorrySleeping wrote: Scott, first Greater TWF requires 19 dex. 16 Dex won't even give you Improved TWF. This is a Dex focused build.... the build requires Improved Shield Bash.... I am talking about a TWF (two weapon fighting) build. I did not get the impression that you were talking about Armor Spikes and Light vs. Medium Armor only within the context of your build. It seemed to me that you were talking about them in the context of all builds. Usually I would consider a 16 Dexterity to be a high for most Fighters that melee with weapon and shield.
SorrySleeping wrote: You many want to take another look at Panther Style. It really isn't worth it to be constantly provoking attacks, since that just means more dice rolled at you, and more chance of it being a critical. Oh, I think it is well-worthwhile, but it can be problematic to be drawing multiple attacks. You'd have to take Dodge and Mobility to offset that, and once you have gotten those, you might as well get Whirlwind Attack. It's a completely different direction you could take your character in that I very Feat intensive, but also very promising. Also, bear in mind that the bonus attacks from Panther Style Feats are not attacks of opportunity. If you also come up with a good Attack of Opportunity trigger, you get those, too.
SorrySleeping wrote: Also most enemies don't have Combat Reflexes, so you generally get 1 attack from each opponent. You always do. Even if your enemy does have Combat Reflexes, he is only ever entitled to 1 AoO against you for moving out of Threatened Squares.
SorrySleeping wrote: Juluis, I'd push into Outflank (if your allies take it too), Critical Feats (Glaive is 18-20, or 15-20 if you make it Keen), Oh, I'm sorry: I think you are mistaken. Glaive has a X3 Crit feature, not an 18-20. The Pole Arm with the 18-20 Threat Range is Fauchard, but it's an Exotic Weapon. I favor the Lucerne Hammer because it does more damage normally, and 2 kinds of damage instead of 1. You are recommending Glaive because only Glaive works with Bladed Brush.
I have a suggestion. If your character is a Human, you might take Martial Versatility and then apply it to Bladed Brush. Then you can use Bladed Brush on any pole Arm you want, including Fauchard or Lucerne Hammer.
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