Well, we know about Magic Weapons (+X attack and *X base damage) and Magic Armor (+X AC and Saves). So what's the final piece of the puzzle? HP scaling appears decent, AC scales so Deflection/Natural Armor isn't really required, and our guesstimates on math suggest that ability score boosts aren't needed. So what could it be? All the former Big 6 are either covered already or rendered unnecessary.
I have a few ideas. It could be that something previously not required is now considered necessary, such as a skill-boosting item, a method of healing, or alternate movement such as flight or teleportation. It could also be that something being added to the system is linked to this item, such as an item that increases Resonance or interacts with Proficiencies in some way. Or perhaps it's something completely unexpected, like an item that grants you an extra act each turn? I want answers dangit!
I don't want any mandatory magic items! Of course characters will have their magic swords and such, but I do not want any sort of jewellery type items to be essential.Well, we know about Magic Weapons (+X attack and *X base damage) and Magic Armor (+X AC and Saves). So what's the final piece of the puzzle? HP scaling appears decent, AC scales so Deflection/Natural Armor isn't really required, and our guesstimates on math suggest that ability score boosts aren't needed. So what could it be? All the former Big 6 are either covered already or rendered unnecessary.
I have a few ideas. It could be that something previously not required is now considered necessary, such as a skill-boosting item, a method of healing, or alternate movement such as flight or teleportation. It could also be that something being added to the system is linked to this item, such as an item that increases Resonance or interacts with Proficiencies in some way. Or perhaps it's something completely unexpected, like an item that grants you an extra act each turn? I want answers dangit!
And jewelry-type stuff shouldn't be essential! There's plenty of room in the game for non-essential trinkets and cool effects that aren't broadly-applicable. However, looking at the two components of the current Big 3 that we know - Weapons and Armor - it doesn't seem that every character is going to need or even want these. For instance, Monks and Wizards have no need for armor or conventional weaponry in many cases. Whatever the mystery third item is, I'm betting it'll be something like that - not necessary for everyone, but very desirable for the people it's useful for. Something like the Staffs in Spheres of Power, for example, which are great for characters that cast spells but not strictly required for the non-casters and casters with less magical prowess.
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However, looking at the two components of the current Big 3 that we know - Weapons and Armor - it doesn't seem that every character is going to need or even want these. For instance, Monks and Wizards have no need for armor or conventional weaponry in many cases.
Monks are still gonna want an Amulet of Might Fists and everyone who doesn't want armor is gonna want Bracers of Armor. But yeah, number of required items is gonna be sharply limited.
However, looking at the two components of the current Big 3 that we know - Weapons and Armor - it doesn't seem that every character is going to need or even want these. For instance, Monks and Wizards have no need for armor or conventional weaponry in many cases.Monks are still gonna want an Amulet of Might Fists and everyone who doesn't want armor is gonna want Bracers of Armor. But yeah, number of required items is gonna be sharply limited.
The description I've heard of necessary magic items is ambiguous enough to where the above could cover everything that fits. It's worth noting that not all characters particularly wanted all 6 of the big 6 in PF1. Really, the universal ones were:
--Ring of Protection
--Cloak of Resistance
--Stat boosting item. This one cheats though because it is two different types of items and some classes want both.
A paladin would essentially have a big 7 assuming they didn't also have a shield to enchant. Where a wizard really only NEEDS a cloak and headband, with the ring and amulet of natural armor being good if they have decided to invest in AC rather than rely on spell defenses. And if they go that route, Mage Armor is way stronger than any Bracers of Armor you can afford for a very long time. So for them, it is generally a big 4.
A monk wants a belt, a headband, a cloak, a ring, and an amulet of mighty fists. Getting access to regular Mage Armor is usually preferable to bracers at most levels.
All that is to say "2, maybe 3 necessary magic items" could mean something like "weapons and armor, except there are classes that use bracers in place of the armor and some may want the AoMF instead of a weapon."
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Maybe amulet of mighty fists will no longer be a thing, it could be baked into the class (feature or feat), so you can get more interesting items. Every monk walking around with the same bling after a certain level is odd.
It's one item that can look like anything, so it isn't that odd.
And they've made it pretty clear it still exists (and costs the same as any other magic weapon, rather than the doubled cost of PF1), so it's a thing.
I always thought it should of been hand wraps but I suppose this is easier for animal companions and anything with natural attacks.
I always thought it should of been hand wraps but I suppose this is easier for animal companions and anything with natural attacks.I would prefer not every Monk ending up with the tea-towels wrapped around their "fists" in order to keep up.
So they would use not magic items at all or did you have some preferred form in your head?
With resonance I could imagine them reading a secret technique in a scoll and as long as they commit the resonance they get the bonus. Without item slots its not immediately apparent to me what would break.
With resonance I could imagine them reading a secret technique in a scoll and as long as they commit the resonance they get the bonus. Without item slots its not immediately apparent to me what would break.
I like that. That's not bad I thought the wraps because it could take up weapon slot but I like your idea better.
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For the record, we basically know what items everyone wants in PF2:
1. Magic Weapon (or AoMF). This is probably replaced by an item that increases accuracy with spells that use an attack roll for some Wizards and the like (the existence of such an item has been confirmed). People exclusively provoking Saves can probably skip this one and be down to two items.
2. Magic Armor (or Bracers of Armor). You can theoretically skip this with Heightened Mage Armor (apparently) but that's investing a high spell slot in avoiding an item.
3. At high levels (because they're pricey) a stat-boosting item. These seem to be limited to +2 to a stat for high stats, but have other abilities as well.
And from there, things will vary quite a lot. That seems a reasonable compromise between wanting necessary items and not wanting the 'Christmas tree' effect.
Rely on Ki and inner Carradine to keep up with magic weapons, though, I do not like the keeping up thing, but it seems cemented.So they would use not magic items at all or did you have some preferred form in your head?I always thought it should of been hand wraps but I suppose this is easier for animal companions and anything with natural attacks.I would prefer not every Monk ending up with the tea-towels wrapped around their "fists" in order to keep up.
So the class would have the natural ways built in so it wouldn't need magic items then? Like the monk in the final fantasy 1 game? (american #1). That would probably be hard to balance maybe not impossible. It would have a few ramifications such as a party with a monk would have more wealth for the other party members (or DM would have to adjust) And the monk player doesn't get to look forward to item drops. plus if the class is strong enough to keep up without magic items if they find a way to use magic items they become more powerful the other classes (or you could put the 1st edition restriction back like they used to have where most items and weapons didn't work for them). It can get rather complicated.
I know I saw you pushing for a non-required magic item level up process at some point which is where I imagine your coming from here. That has issues as well. You have to make items sparse and weak to not inflate power levels or magic items will make encounters to easy or you have to give monsters items to use as well.
Well I guess it depends on your stories. My world has a tradition of adventurers. You expect adventurers and if you have enough money you hire them to get things done. You start to notice certain adventurer types. You might even divide them into categories. Oh hey that guy in the armor might be a fighter or a paladin or some such that guy in the robes looks like he could be a wizard Ah but he doesn't smell like bat poo or have a beard so he could be a monk! So then the crafters are like hmm supply and demand well fighters need magical weapons we will make whats most popular to sell them. So hey there are monk adventures and this item is a must have for monk adventurers so lets make a few to sell to them. etc. etc. Its all about how you see the world.
So the class would have the natural ways built in so it wouldn't need magic items then?Rely on Ki and inner Carradine to keep up with magic weapons, though, I do not like the keeping up thing, but it seems cemented.So they would use not magic items at all or did you have some preferred form in your head?I always thought it should of been hand wraps but I suppose this is easier for animal companions and anything with natural attacks.I would prefer not every Monk ending up with the tea-towels wrapped around their "fists" in order to keep up.Yes; I don't see why every Monk on the planet needs to get ahold of this one time so they can keep up with the Jones's.
Sounds stupid, from a narrative point.
At some level monks and druids were always stupid in dnd from a narrative point. Going in the dungeon to get treasure and magic items certainly doesn't fit their style.
In a weird way a lot problems with the monk class stem from this. Like the fact that they feel kinda pigeonholed in using magic items with the rest of the classes, while they would feel cooler without using any magic items.
Monks will often be using enchanted fist wraps instead of weapons in PF2, per a small bit of text talking about items adventures will want that was visible in the PaizoCon preview dinner.
Monks will often be using enchanted fist wraps instead of weapons in PF2, per a small bit of text talking about items adventures will want that was visible in the PaizoCon preview dinner.When, where? I watched that and didn't spot it.
It’s in the text section of the images page with a bunch of different weapons and staffs.
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So it is. Interesting. I wonder if the amulet really is gone then? Looking back on it, what I was interpreting as it still being around might just be it having been replaced with an equivalent item. Or maybe there's still an amulet but only for natural attack users? I guess we'll have to wait and see.
Other news from that bit is that Stat Booster items are only expected from around 14th level on. So very much a high level thing.
Also, it's nice to have an actual sidebar detailing the expected items characters will have. Makes things much easier on new players.
So it is. Interesting. I wonder if the amulet really is gone then? Looking back on it, what I was interpreting as it still being around might just be it having been replaced with an equivalent item. Or maybe there's still an amulet but only for natural attack users? I guess we'll have to wait and see.
Other news from that bit is that Stat Booster items are only expected from around 14th level on. So very much a high level thing.
Also, it's nice to have an actual sidebar detailing the expected items characters will have. Makes things much easier on new players.
There are no natural attacks now, just unarmed strikes. A wolf biting you is using an unarmed strike. (See: the animal companion section.) Also, the wraps will be the same price as regular weapons- no more tax on Monk.
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There are no natural attacks now, just unarmed strikes. A wolf biting you is using an unarmed strike. (See: the animal companion section.)
Sure, but a wolf might have difficulty wearing handwraps...
Also, the wraps will be the same price as regular weapons- no more tax on Monk.
That I knew, from the discussion I had thought implied the amulet was still around (it involved Mark Seifter saying something like 'and the amulet of mighty fists is no longer double price' but not in quite those words).
Sure, but a wolf might have difficulty wearing handwraps...
Handwraps to leg wraps?
I’m guessing animal companions can’t use them, since they have a built-in (very weak) damage dice progression. At the very least, they can’t benefit from item bonuses to attack.