Advice on party composition

[Enob Nodrog]

Hello all -

We are currently playing Jade Regent, and the player playing our party Oracle is about to drop out.

If she does, we have no divine spell-casters in our party. No cleric, paladin, ranger, druid, nothing.

What is the consensus of the board? Do we need a divine spell caster to have success with this AP? I have grave concerns that a bunch of healing potions just isn't going to fill the gaping hole left by her departure...

TIA for any advice.

edit: I should advise that although most players in our party have played D&D 3.5 or earlier before, this is a crew of Pathfinder newbies. No-one has played any RPG's for at least a decade, most for longer than that.

Also, the characters left are a wizard (conjuration), a samurai, a rogue, and a magus.

[deuxhero]

Healing in combat is a pretty bad option unless someone is at negative HP, enemies simply do more damage than you can heal and the frequently don't need spell slots or other limited resources to do this damage. A divine caster is needed mainly for ending ongoing conditions like poison, disease or ability damage. The magus and wizard can use wands of Infernal Healing to cover raw HP pretty well out of combat.

Jade Regent is actually one of the more forgiving to this hole than most APs, as you have pretty reasonable solid access to a divine casting NPC who won't charge you.

[LordKailas]

I disagree that healing during combat is a waste, but that is a disagreement for another time.

Even out of combat you will want a renewable healing resource. Wands and potions are ok for emergencies but this can be quite costly and time consuming at higher levels. I haven't played Jade Regent and so if there is an NPC that can reliably heal you out of combat between encounters then you're probably ok.

Having a divine caster and having a healer are not one in the same. I think you're fine not having a divine caster. I can't think of any spells that are exclusively divine that are a necessity except perhaps the resurrection spells. But even then, you'll end up having to find someone else if the divine caster themselves is the one who needs to be brought back.

With the right archetypes and feats any of the following classes can be healers:
Alchemist, Bard, Magus, Sorcerer, Witch, and Wizard

[Shiroi]

Wizard can also summon monsters with healing SLAs if you want, but honestly if you're getting so beat up you routinely need combat healing or a major full heal often, you're not thinking tactically and immersing yourself fully. Hit point damage isn't "oh, I lost 8 points I keep fighting", it's pain. It's hurting, smashed knuckles and bruises down your ribs and a jagged scar on your left arm. Have the party think in terms of not "what is it reasonable I might survive" but "what would a person do here to avoid being hurt, knowing it might even be fatal?"

You'll feel more in touch with your character, and suddenly far more concerned by the presence of archers. You'll start thinking outside the box, taking fewer risks, and ultimately you'll need far, far less healing.

[Dave Justus]

wizard (conjuration), a samurai, a rogue, and a magus isn't an ideal mix based on the default assumptions those of what roles those classes will take in combat.

You are missing a support character. Healing is part of support, but it isn't all, or even the biggest part. Buffing in various ways is equally important as is condition removal (where the divine caster really shines.) Replace your Rogue with a Bard and I wouldn't have any concerns about this party. If the Rogue has good UMD skill they could compensate.

I believe quite strongly that while both clerics and oracles are great classes, every player group should play a campaign (or at least several adventures) without either (or other healing focused characters) so they can realize that 1) in combat healing is often unnecessary and inefficient and 2) there are more things that these powerful characters can do rather than just being a mobile first aid station.

That said, having a character with at least some good condition removal on class list or a very high UMD so consumables can be used to compensate is important. Additionally, you will need reliable out of combat healing, and no one even has CLW on their list to use the cheap wands. If infernal healing is an option you have less of a problem though, a least with the out of combat HP fixes.

[Mathmuse]

deuxhero wrote:

Healing in combat is a pretty bad option unless someone is at negative HP, enemies simply do more damage than you can heal and the frequently don't need spell slots or other limited resources to do this damage. A divine caster is needed mainly for ending ongoing conditions like poison, disease or ability damage. The magus and wizard can use wands of Infernal Healing to cover raw HP pretty well out of combat.

Jade Regent is actually one of the more forgiving to this hole than most APs, as you have pretty reasonable solid access to a divine casting NPC who won't charge you.

As deuxhero said, the NPC bard Ameiko Kaijitsu and the NPC cleric Koya Mvashti are likely to be traveling with the party. Though they may avoid going into the most dangerous delves with the party, the party can reunite with them in the evening for daily healing and condition removal. If the GM does not level up Koya, then she might not be capable of removing some higher-level conditions, but she can supplement her spells with scrolls the party purchases for her.

For emergency healing during or immediately after combat, bring a few potions.

Ironically, I had replaced Ameiko with her half-sister Amaya of Westcrown and made Amaya an oracle, so she was the healer for the party in my Jade Regent campaign.