Clarification on Spell Conduit ability (Blood Conduit archetype)


Rules Questions


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

The Blood Conduit archetype for the bloodrager class gains access to the Spell Conduit ability, which I would like clatification on.

"Spell Conduit (Su)
At 5th level, as long as a blood conduit is wearing light or no armor, he can deliver bloodrager spells with a range of touch through bodily contact. When he succeeds at a combat maneuver check to bull rush, grapple, pin, reposition, or trip an opponent, or makes an unarmed strike against an enemy, he can as a swift action cast a touch spell on the creature that he affected with the combat maneuver, requiring no further touch attack roll. If this spell would usually require a successful touch attack, his successful combat maneuver check counts as this attack.
This ability replaces uncanny dodge and improved uncanny dodge."

I find it very ambiguous.
First: it states that it works "through bodily contact".

Second: it lists "combat maneuver check to bull rush, grapple, pin, reposition, or trip an opponent, or makes an unarmed strike".

Ambiguity: Natural attacks which are probably the most common form of bodily contact in PF combat is not listed. Reposition and trip are listed even though these can be performed with weapons (including reach weapons) that do not involve bodily contact.

Is it possible to get a confirmation on whether the term "bodily contact" should be ignored or whether the listed actions is incomplete and due for revision?

What interpretations do other players and GMs adhere to?


It is ambiguous, but I believe the RAI is that you are not using a weapon to perform the combat maneuver. If I trip you by throwing bolas at you, it wouldn't make sense that I can now somehow cast a touch spell at you since that somehow constitutes as "bodily contact".

While it's not specified, it makes sense that natural weapons should also be eligible for the ability.


RAW, natural weapons that aren't unarmed strikes won't work, and tripping someone with bolas will.

That seems like a clear mistake. So long as the natural attack is a melee one and not something weird, like a spine dragon launching its spines, yeah, it should have been listed. Likewise, combat maneuvers should require bodily contact to trigger this ability.


Though I tend to reach the bodily contact as a restriction, I also find it counterintuitive that bloodrages cannot use this ability with natural weapons, since the integral to many bloodrager builds.


i think you are forgetting the basics -which is, when there are specific rules already set they don't repeat them. as you can allready deliver touch spells with a natural attacks they just didn't bother saying it again in this class ability that expand the ways to deliver touch spells beyond the normal ways.

here is the rule:

from 'holding the charge' in combat>cast a spell>touch spells in combat:
Holding the Charge: If you don’t discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren’t considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack. If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.

note, casting touch spells normaly take a standard action that give a free touch attck to deliver. to use natural weapon or unarmed strike one must wait to a round after to get an attack action to use them ,unless one is a magus and uses his weapon instead of touch, as magus get a free attack with what ever he deilver his spell with even on the round he casts the spell.
this class ability expand the ways you can cast and deliver the spell in the same round (or hold the charge and deliver on next attacks)


Thanks for your input zza ni.

Your answer, though related, is off topic. Please reread the original post.


hmm?
didn't your last post say :
"I also find it counterintuitive that bloodrages cannot use this ability with natural weapons, since the integral to many bloodrager builds."
since the ability you talk about is to deliver touch spells, and you say it won't let you by raw to deliver them via natural weapons i asnwered that you can allraedy can do that, true that ability doesn't require waiting a round when using other mathods mantioned in it. but it's hardly any problem to natural weapon attackers who can do taht one round later.


The ability we're talking about is not delivering touch spells. The ability we're talking about is the ability to (a) cast a touch spell as a swift action and (b) immediately auto-deliver it (c) after confirming a hit. The Grandfather was correct in stating that you cannot use this ability with natural weapons (other than unarmed strike) as written. This is rather weird from both thematic and mechanical standpoints.


zza ni wrote:

hmm?

didn't your last post say ...

What blahpers said :)

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