True seeing vs astrazoan change form?


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Does true seeing bypass an astrazoan's change form ability, allowing the caster to see the alien's true form? Or does it not work at all, since the astrazoan's racial ability is physical in nature, much like a mundane disguise would be?


"True Seeing wrote:

You confer upon the target the ability to see all things within 120 feet as they actually are. The target sees through normal and magical darkness, notices secret doors hidden by magic, sees the exact locations of creatures or objects that are invisible or displaced, sees through illusions, and sees the true form of changed or transmuted things. Further, the target can focus its vision to see into the Ethereal Plane (but not into extradimensional spaces).

True seeing, however, does not penetrate solid objects. It in no way confers X-ray vision or its equivalent. It does not negate concealment, including that caused by fog and the like. True seeing does not help the viewer see through mundane disguises, spot creatures who are simply hiding, or notice secret doors hidden by mundane means.

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Astrazoan Change Form wrote:
As a standard action, an astrazoan can physically alter their form to look like any Medium creature, as long as they have seen a similar creature before. They can attempt to either mimic a specific creature or look like a general creature of the chosen type. The astrazoan gains a +10 bonus to Disguise checks to appear as a creature of the type and subtype of the new form. The DC of the astrazoan’s Disguise check is not modified as a result of altering major features or if they disguise themself as an aberration or a humanoid (though the DC is still modified if the astrazoan attempts to disguise themself as a different creature type). The astrazoan can remain in an alternate form indefinitely (or until they take another form).

It's not listed as Ex, Sp, or Su. But it seems more like a "changed or transmuted thing" than a "mundane disguise." I'd let True Seeing spot Astrazoans, Reptoids, and similar shape changers.


I would argue that true seeing would not work since it is clearly intended to work against supernatural/magical tomfoolery. Whereas the astrazoan's shape changing appears to be biological (therefore mundane) in nature ala parasyte.

Grand Lodge Contributor

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

I designed the race, and the ability is intended to be (Ex), not (Su) or (Sp). However, the word "mundane" is ambiguous; on one hand it's the opposite of "extraordinary", but on the other hand, it is also often used to mean "not magical" in the context of PF/SF. I can see arguments for and against allowing the spell to work against an astrazoan.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Do you have any idea why NONE of the Starfinder races clarify whether their racial traits are extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like?

Grand Lodge Contributor

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

I don't know. Pact Worlds uses largely the same format for racial trait sidebars as Core or AA, but I wasn't involved in writing those books. I agree that adding (Ex), (Su), or (Sp) would be a concise way to make the rules more clear, but it's not my call.


I'm gonna piggyback a bit but I'm wondering if True seeing would affect technological types of illusion or invisibility, like an operatives cloak field?


I don't know, but then I don't know the atrozoan. I know the hengeyokai of Kaidan, which I'm using in my upcoming Kaidan 2.0 for Starfinder, are shapechangers but each form - animal, animal humanoid and human are all their "true forms" see a True seeing should't be able to recognize any of those forms as not being true. If it were purely magic, it should, but these are spell-like racial abilities... ?


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@Mikko Kallio

Seeing as how you've clarified that this is an (Ex) ability and a natural physical alteration, I'm curious about a couple other aspects of this as they relate to your Astrozoan brainchild.

1. There has been some debate about whether an Astrozoan that takes on a form with 4 arms could use the arms proficiently or if they would simply be floppy meat sacks that look like arms. This seems odd considering that the Astrozoan has 7 limbs naturally so would in theory be able to handle multiple limbs/appendages easily but What were your thoughts?

2. I've seen debates over whether your intention for this race was for them to be able to adapt to new forms with comparable abilities for the new form or not. AKA if you changed into an aquatic humanoid, would you gain its water breathing/gills?

thanks in advance for reading and answering. And thanks for your contributions to the game!


RAW, true seeing description clearly states it sees through changed and transmuted things. So, it must see the true form of the astrazoan.

Grand Lodge Contributor

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.

It's a non-magical ability that allows them to change their appearance, like a mimic octopus, only they're a lot better at it. Whether true seeing should reveal their starfish-like form is a good question; I don't know. Would it reveal a chameleon's true color?

To answer Hannoverfiste's questions, their ability to change appearance doesn't give the astrazoan *any* racial abilities. Movement speeds, water breathing, the kasatha's four-armed ability, etc. are all racial abilities so you don't get them. The ability really is just an extension of the Disguise skill.

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