Sanity, Corruption, and other ideas

[Balthesar]

So I'm about to start running SA in just under 2 weeks, and I have a bunch of ideas I want to try that I wanted to get some opinions on.

Some background: I'm running a group of mostly PF newbies but with solid gaming backgrounds and letting them throw in the kitchen sink. They are running 25 point buy and 4/5 of them are hybrid classes. I'm guessing they will struggle a little at the start but before long I will be beefing up encounters, which I am comfortable with.

Sanity

So first, I want to use the sanity rules, but I don't like how long it takes for them to heal, and how quickly they can stack up on low threshold characters. I think I will use the fugue state and their experience from their previous employer, to say they are quicker to heal. But I'd also think it could be fun to have them on the brink of insanity constantly.

Given a single nights rest in a very safe area, like the chapel in the Asylum, I want to give them the cure check. I figure even with a good save and restorations, any madness will still last a couple days. This also lets the game progress without frequently stopping for a month to cure everyone's sanity.

What I could use some help with, is still making sure low threshold characters aren't constantly going mental. Luckily I don't have anyone dumping all mental stats, but I could still have 1 guy with a threshold of 1. Any thoughts how off it would be to have madness require sanity damage exceeding he threshold? So at least 2 damage to trigger. I think that would make a huge difference for the one character, but then the ones with a threshold of 4 now need 5 to go mad, and it will be ages before anything happens.

I had also considered instead of a threshold, since I will also let them heal quicker, trigger a madness every cumulative 20-25% of max sanity damage they take. So if someone had 32 sanity, after taking 8 total damage, they get a madness, even if it was 1 at a time. If they are below half when it happens, that would trigger a greater. So everyone would semi-regularly go mad, and then heal, and greater madnesses should be rare.

Anyone see any glaring issues?

Corruption

So I really want to incorporate this. I'm going to take each player, and tie 1-2 old gods to them, matching their drives and desires. If anyone dies, I would take them aside right away, and they would get a visit from their old one offering great power that would hopefully be very tempting to them. They could instantly come back to life tainted, no one else knowing what happened. I figure I could also find a number of other ways to tempt them with power that just saving from death.

Anyway, I just came up with this idea today, so I'm thought I'd request some help to tie the old gods to the different corruption types. I don't really have the time to make my own.

Deep one is obvious. Aboleth could be used for a couple.Plagued, etc. Anyone more familiar with the mythos able to lend a hand? I mainly wanted to share the idea and any suggestions you all have would just be a bonus.

Improvised weapons

My last big idea I think is hilarious. I don't want my group finding all their starter gear right away. Mechanically, they get their gear, but flavor-wise... The investigator finds a pair of trowels for daggers. The bloodrager, a sharp shovel or a long pipe. A jagged piece of metal with a cloth "handle" for the swashbuckler. Pot lids for shields, etc. Mechanically, I will let them be just like the weapons they want, but visually... the survivors will see this group of crazy people who don't know who they are with a bunch of improvised weapons running around. In the personal effects storage room later, I'm going to give them their "old" gear, masterwork weapons of their preferred type and things such as that.

I'm just having trouble coming up with good stand ins for some items, especially crossbows. I know its a bit goofy, but I think it will be memorable and fun. If anyone has good ideas for improvised versions of basic weapons and armor, I'm all ears!

If you actually read all of that, Thank You!

[Hubaris]

I'm not a huge Sanity fan (as it really doubles down on Mental Stats being great, and Will Saves being prominent which makes high mental stats/high Wisdom/high Will even better)... But I do like Corruption and I can help you with that.

Corruptions Tied to Mythos Creatures Note this isn't entirely PF Lore Friendly, as only some of them exist in the Universe. Some of them are from the works of Lumley, Ashton, Derleth, etc.

Spoiler:

Also no Hastur as he is prominent in the AP, though you could definitely use Xamen-Dor for Hive.

Aboleth - No need to shoehorn something here, can always make up a powerful, ancient Aboleth consciousness (zeitgeist) that you can use as your own deity stand in.

Accursed - Without spoiling much, there is one major player in the story who would allow this to work nicely. See Below:

Spoiler:

The Briarstone Witch herself or some piece of her working corrupting work.

Deep One - Father Dagon / Mother Hydra / Cthulhu all fit the theme here. All 3 are worshiped as a Trinity by the Deep Ones. Ythogtha if you want to stray further from Lovecraft.

Ghoul - Mordiggian the Charnel God. Worshiped by Ghouls and is prominent in the Dreamlands. Very fitting.

Hive - Lots to fit in here. Eihort infests its victims until its brood comes to life, as well as Ei'lor. See my note up top in the spoiler as well... which is the best fit IMO.

Lich - Quachil Uttaus is all about decay, death and the unyielding march of time... the usual things the Liches of the world work to stop.

Lycanthropy - Not much that I can recall with Were-things, but Shub-Niggurath is like the Mythos version of Lamashtu. Lots of beasties and young things that have been twisted. Ithaqua can also give you that rapid feeling, as it is The Wendigo.

Plagued - Pretty much any corrupting or diseased source works. You can basically choose nearly any Mythos deity and make it fit here. I'm strapped for ideas truth be told.

Promethean - The Great Race of Yith isn't a deity per se but they basically are hyper intelligent bio-tech and machine-tech creators (think the Engineers from Prometheus). Its easy to have a body tampered with Yithian experiments.

Shadowbound - Zushakon absolutely abhors light and the fact that it brings destruction in its wake is perfect for the nihilistic, 'why bother' of Shadowbound.

Vampirism - Mythos vampires are very different than standard ones so see what applies, but Yibb-Tstll would fit here. Batlike, parasitic and life draining. If you want something a little more out there, Chaugnar Faugn is a vampiric ELEPHANT. There are a LOT of vampiric mythos creatures (Rhan-Tegoth as well), but not Dracula vampiric.

I cut Demonic and Hellbound because there aren't really many demons and devils in the Mythos (or any I can think of). As for Possessed, that one can come naturally, there are plenty of ghosts of the past for the heroes of the story to deal with.

If you want to make a deal for Magical Power at a cost, nothing is better than the Lurker at the Threshold, Yog-Sothoth... Except maybe the Crawling Chaos, Nyarlathotep. You can easily throw in pact deals and forbidden magic with both of them; they're good catch-alls.

---

Note for Corruptions, I would highly recommend using my following house rules because they are very nasty if contracted early.

Hubaris' Corruption Custom Rules wrote:

Difficulty class to save is instead 10 + double manifestation level instead of 15 + manifestation level. Otherwise the saving throws early on are basically impossible to pass for some characters. This also makes the later game saves MUCH harder to pass, making the taint more and more powerful each time.

Corruptions go to Stage 4 instead of Stage 3, meaning they can fail 3 Saves before they are NPC'd. This extra bit of wiggle room is really nice.

I also like to tie the abilities to Manifestation Level, as some of them don't really scale too well otherwise; but that's up to you of course! It makes them wanting to take the next 'hit' all the more sweeter.

[Davor Firetusk]

I ran just a little bit of Sanity, and especially in this environment it threatens to overwhelm everything. The mechanics for healing it are really slow and do not jive well with the pace of the AP. Deaths in the Dreamlands cause immediate Madness anyways. While you are giving them a big boost with 25 point buy, I'd worry about them being new to Pathfinder also making them less likely to find the best way to optimize as a group. Corruptions on the other hand do a much better job at the kind of creeping doom aspect.

[YogoZuno]

I'm running the Dreamlands now, and the madness caused by deaths are a minor inconvenience at most, since they have a Warpriest with Lesser Restoration permanently memorised.

The other big issue with Sanity is I believe it can mess with any psychic casters - you might want to check into this one.

[Hubaris]

I used the following:

Quote:

Any character who goes to fear level 7 (horrified) immediately gains a madness after the fear subsides.

This assumes you use the expanded Fear system in HA.

[Balthesar]

Hubaris, you are awesome. I'm absolutely using some of your ideas.
Here is some of the pairings I have, and adjustments I need to make.

The bone spirit shaman is going to be tempted by Mordiggian and the ghoul corruption. I will probably just need to adjust the ghoul abilities, because most are useless to a caster so not very tempting... Maybe pull some from the lich corruption?

My investigator will be tempted by nyarlathotep, but I'm not sure what corruption to use.

The bloodrager will get Shub-Niggurath, but I think I will actually use hive with some minor adjustments. I think the manifestations are very fitting

My loner swashbuckler will get the shadowbound corruption, just havent decided on an old one. I'll have to look up the one you mentioned.

And the sorcerer is I am leaning towards the other magic power you mentioned, Yog-Sothoth. I think it fits quite well as its an aasimar so the whole half breed thing that i see tied to Yog. Not sure what corruption to offer though. And I want it to be different than the investigator with Nyarle

[Davor Firetusk]

I found that the issue was not the lesser madness', it was that once they had suffered a lesser madness it takes usually close to a week or so to completely clear the madness. But by the rules if you suffer a second lesser madness even if you've healed the DC way down it automatically turns into a greater madness and most of those are very difficult to play through.

[Hubaris]

Pathfinder's Abhoth would do great for Plagued! I'll change my answer to that.

You could always make some of your own Corruptions, or mash abilities from the unused ones. Knowledge-Obsessed Corruption for instance could combine some of the Possessed abilities with the others you aren't using. Go wild and follow what inspires you!

If you want to stay closer to the source material, with the exception of Nyarl and Yog, most of the Ancient Ones don't care much for humanity outside of their agendas. Having them talk or offer power through an intermediary would be fitting for the flavour of the campaign and also provide a nice juxtaposition with the villains:

Spoiler:

Tatterman/Briarstone Witch, The Pallid Mask/Hastur, Lowls/X-D, intermediaries are a prevalent theme throughout.

I'll see if I can whip up a Corruption or two, because I plan to use more in the future anyway and I'll link them up here if I get happy enough with them.

[Balthesar]

That would be really awesome Hubaris. Thank you very much for everything!

Davor, that is why I want to change the mechanics so madnesses can be healed much more quickly, with a heal check every day instead of weekly. Also making them apply more evenly and consistently. If they end up being a pain, I'll just drop them.

I also posted this on reddit and for the Improvised weapon ideas it was suggested to just give everyone Catch Off-Guard for free, which is probably what I will do.

[YogoZuno]

Quote:

I found that the issue was not the lesser madness', it was that once they had suffered a lesser madness it takes usually close to a week or so to completely clear the madness.

Why a week? One single Lesser Restoration clears it up...that's available at character level 3 or 4.

[Davor Firetusk]

Per the Horror Adventures rules a lesser madness only has its DC reduced by 2 after casting lesser restoration and a character cannot do that more than once per day. A normal restoration will heal 5 points off the madness DC (page 183 Horror Adventures) and a Greater restoration, psychic surgery etc will cure it at once. Greater Madnesses require at least a restoration to have any affect.

[YogoZuno]

Oh, I see, sorry - didn't realise the Horror Sanity rules were so different. My bad.

[Davor Firetusk]

Don't get me wrong the madness effects were fun for my group the first go around to role-play. I tried to keep the players in the dark from each other as to what conditions they ended up getting. But when they got to the point that they would just stop moving forward until they had healed them it was becoming clear that the fun challenge had become tedious.

[Scott Neilsen]

I've modified the sanity rules so that only every third failed check counts for sanity damage. I run this in game by giving them a chit each time they fail (so for example if they are on two chits and fail again they take the sanity damage and return the chits) and if they end the day and rest for eight hours and are only on one or two chits, sanity is reset (restored) and they start the next day on zero. This adds a creeping doom aspect to it and lessens the frequency of madness manifesting.

[Scott Neilsen]

These are some of the lesser madness descriptions I've come up with

Delirium

You can't seem to concentrate or focus your thoughts, at times your mind wanders and catch yourself talking about mundane and irrelevant topics.

Delusion

You are convinced that one of your party members is hording food and not sharing it with you. You're not quite sure which one it is but no amount of evidence can dissuade you of that belief.

You are convinced that one of your party members weapons is actually sentient and is spying on you and watching you all the time and no amount of evidence can dissuade you of that belief.

You are convinced that you can talk to small animals and will attempt to hold conversations with them when you encounter them, you will defend yourself if attacked but no amount of evidence can dissuade you of your belief.

Hallucination

The ugly mark on the back of your hand itches like crazy and you have to scratch it furiously at least once an hour. Don't believe your team mates when they say they can't see it when you show it to them. Maybe the healer in your group can do something about it?

Who the hell is that, that keeps whispering in your ear? And why the hell would you be at all interested in the farming prospects in Varisia? Even in the middle of combat the voice talks about lambing weights and the price of turnips....what the hell?

Why is it that no one else in the party can see that halfling that keeps follow you? He's always just back around the corner of the passage or just in the corner of your eye. You might have to track him down and find out who and what he wants?

Mania

If only you had a mirror. Your hair must be a mess and the Gods only know how bushy your eyebrows are now? And you hate to think if the nostril hairs are growing longer. If only you had a mirror you could check, maybe one of teammates has a small mirror....wonder if any of them also has a comb...and maybe some tweezers.

Melancholia

What's the point! Why are we even bothering to try and escape, there is no escape. And who are these people, you don't really know them, what's the point of even talking to them? In fact what's the point of talking at all?

Paranoia

Everyone is out to get me, I'm sure of it. This whole dam thing reeks. These teammates, they are probably in on it, conspiring against me. Probably hording all the food too, not sharing it with me.This place! What is it? A prison that's what!

Phobia

No good came of reading. Won't get me touching a book, no way. Just thinking of it makes my skin crawl. What is it with them? How can people even touch them! Don't think I could even get close...why are my palms all sweaty?

Bugs give you the creeps, even just thinking about them can set you off, and the small ones! They're the worst, scuttling around on all those legs, creepy little bastards, so small you can't see them until they touch you....makes you feel like vomiting.

[Brother Fen]

I'm planning to give everyone a corruption at the start of book one and letting them discover it as they play.

I may modify the save DC a bit to make it less overwhelming.

[Tasfarel]

I agree with you guys. Madnesses are fun to play but can stall your game in a way that it could become dull and no more fun.

So i decided to to moderate this more by reducing their sanity damage from time to time as a kind of roleplaying reward or just to ensure that they can go on with the adventure after exploring the aspekts of their madness. As some of you sad: The lesser madnesses are no big deal. But when a greater madness strikes and you got players who like to play this out proper, my game came to a stop.

For example i decided that the incense of open thoughts will link their minds in a way that the characters are able to "see" their mental damage so that the cleric of the group could heal this stain more effecively.

The first time her goddess took controll, whiping out all the stains.

Later on winter or some other NPC´s might help with magical healing if it´s not available for your group by themself.

Corruptions are a lot of fun, too. Our Rogue was infected with vampirism when she met lady Splinterbone, agreeing to join her for a dance and a "kiss".

Planing to get another character infected with another corruption, soon.

[Haladir]

Check out the rules from the third-party book Cthulhu Mythos for Pathfinder by S. Petersen Games. Co-written by one James Jacobs.

The book includes a sanity system called Dread, which is one of the best sanity systems I've found for 3.5/OGL games! (The Dread system from this game is not related at all to the Dread horror RPG... so no Jenga towers.)

That said, keep this as a GM book. The character options are generally too powerful (and too evil) for most PCs.

On the other hand, the possibility of a Dreamlands cat PC for In Search of Sanity would be an amazing roleplaying opportunity!

[Brother Fen]

I agree.

I'm doing just that! :)