Is this the standard blitzarian concept?


Advice


I am considering a character that is soldier 1/solarian X and wondering if I am missing anything other than the 1 level delay to revelations and weapon specialization .

STR 16
DEX 16
Con 10
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 10

(Or other wise racially modified for the two 16s)

Blitz gets the bonus to initiative, speed and resolve based on strength or dexterity.

From level 2 on it's solar armor and advanced melee weapons. Specialization comes online a level late but the strength bonus should make up for that.

By keeping dex up the build can also do things in ship combat.

By going unbalanced early the build gets stellar rush and plasma sheath going by level 5.

I would lose out of some zenith revelations and level to damage delayed by one level but that seems small compared to the gains elsewhere... or am I missing something?


Nope. that's pretty much it. You will want to focus on revelations that don't allow a save as your DCs will be low. You can mitigate this somewhat if you are wiling to make some choices that boost charisma such as a race pick and putting upgrades into it, but then where are you playing a blitzarian instead of a straight solarian. If you are ok with mostly revelations with no saves consider picking a race with a charisma penalty. Those points are extra something and all the options are good. Also I do think going unbalanced with the blitzarian is a good idea. Since your save DCs are low many of the zeniths will be less powerful, so it's more punishing to have to restart things like plasma sheathe or the DR over again.

Just as a note, I'm currently playing a goblin with a very similar build. And I would say take plasma sheathe first and stellar rush second. Frequently I've found that I was able to close the distance more effectively without charging and the extra damage will be nice while you are character level 3 lagging behind because of specialization. Still take stellar rush as it is an awesome power when you need it, but I'd take it second. I did it the other way around and wished I'd done things differently.

Another thing to keep in mind, you can take specialization with adv. melee weapons as a feat at 3 and then edit it later at level 4 with the mnemonic editor. This is a good option if your gm will let you get access to one as the mk 1 is only 500cr.


Good point.

The extra speed should get me into melee and I have been toying with fleet to stack onto it eventually.

Revelations...the ones with saves don't really impress me. After stellar rush, plasma sheath corona, that gravity one to fly around... that's basically a full career right there.

Comparing against a full solarian, this has better AC, initiative, ship roles and saves while still out doing a soldier at damage in combat and utility powers and defenses.


You know this kinda makes me wonder if I should've done this rather than full solarian
It feels liek this dip is a better solarian than a fully leveled solarian


It' not better or worse really, it's just different. The "Blitzarian" comes with certain advantages, but it also comes with some disadvantages too. I will say that if you aren't going to play to a very high level, say only to level 5, the bltizarian does very well as a matchup.


When or where do you think a full solarian does better? The advantages I see are three rounds to full attunement, better saves on a few powers that use them and revelations come online a level earlier.

Without a significant skill booster in the class, and the 1D6 influence they get is only a secondary boost compared to operatives and envoys as far as I see it, they don't party face well. Face skills and resolve are their only real uses for charisma. Since they need strength for melee, all melee builds want that 16 starting number. The class also pushes for light armor which needs dex, otherwise it is a feat tax, speed tax and ACP to use heavy which actually degrades stellar rush a bit, I.e., a full solarian at level two can charge 20-25 feet, a blitzarian will get 40 at level 3. A full solarian can bring that up to 30 with fleet while the blitz would be at 50.

I don't mean to be rude, I don't see the class as working very well with itself. It is by no means a core book monk but it is a spiritual descendent with that same MADness and abilities that seem to work against it's proficiencies.

Of course, I could be missing some fundamentals about the class that you know of so, please help me out here.


Depends on what you're looking for in a build. That can vary how you weigh different components of a class.

I'll note using just the core rulebook, for an Operative to Party face it requires an investment of at least one feat to get Diplomacy as a class skill (or alternatively Themeless). If the Operative has identical charisma to the Solarian, then the Solarian is better 3rd through 10th level, and only slightly gets edged out 11th-14th by half a point on average, assuming Diplomacy is happening outside of combat. If the Solarian actually has higher starting Charisma (likely), the Solarian will be better at Diplomacy than the typical operative levels 1-19 or so.

If your party doesn't have an Envoy or a charisma focused Operative, a Solarian with some Charisma is probably the next choice for a party face. I happen to play with a Shirren Operative with a charisma of 8 and a Human Soldier with a Charisma of 10, so a full Solarian with some charisma made sense in that context instead of a Blitzarian.

Try writing out an example character of each at a few levels and actually do the comparisons, rather than just saying its a revelation in exchange for better to-hit and damage. At some levels, the pure Solarian actually rolls more damage and with equal to-hit. Levels 10-14 for example.

Compare two builds, a Str 16/Dex Soldier/Solarian build versus a Str 14/Dex 14/Cha 14 Solarian build, and see what you gain and lose. Give them the same equipment and choices (Solar Armor, light armor) and see the differences.

1st Level Soldier vs 1st Level Solarian
Soldier has: +1 to hit (photon mode makes damage bonus equal), +4 Initiative, +10 speed, +1 Resolve (AC is equal because of Solar Armor), +1 Reflex save
Solarian Supernova (2d6+1 AoE on turn 3, reflex save DC 12 for half), +2 to Charisma based skills

2nd level Soldier/Solarian vs 2nd level Solarian
Soldier has: +1 to hit, +1 to damage, +1 AC, +4 Initiative, +10 speed, +1 Resolve, +1 Fort Save, +1 Will Save
Solarian has: +1d6 (3d6 vs 2d6) and +3 DC on Supernova, Standard Action charge, +2 to charisma based skills

3rd level Soldier/Solarian vs 3rd level Solarian
Soldier has: +1 to hit, +1 to damage, +1 AC, +4 initiative, +10 feet, +1 Resolve, +2 Fort save, +2 Will save
Solarian has: An extra Feat (didn't need Weapon Specialization), +1d6 (4d6 vs 3d6) and +2 DC on Supernova, +1d6 to two skills out of combat, +2 to Charisma based skills

4th level Soldier/Solarian vs 4th level Solarian
Soldier has: +1 to hit, +1 AC, +4 Initiative, +10 feet, +1 Resolve, +1 Fort, +1 Ref, +1 Will saves
Solarian has: +1 to damage (Plasma sheath), +1d6 (5d6 vs 4d6) and +3 DC to Supernova, +2 on Charisma skills

skipping a few

10th level Soldier/Solarian vs 10th level Solarian (assuming Soldier went 19 Str/19 Dex/14 Con/14 Wis vs Solarian 18 Str/18Dex/12 Con/12 Wis/18 Cha)
Soldier has: +4 Initiative, +10 feet movement, +10 Stamina, +2 Fort and +2 Will saves, +2 Resolve
Solarian has: +1 damage (Plasma Sheath), +1 AC, 5 more fire or cold resistance, +1d6 and +5 DC Supernova, Soul Furnace, extra damage on Blazing Orbit or +3 hit points on Glow of Life in combat, +4 on Charisma skills

skipping a few more

20th Soldier/Solarian vs 20th Solarian
(assuming Soldier Str 20+6/Dex 20+4/Con 18+2/Int 12/ Wis 18/ Cha 12 vs Solarian Str 20+6/Dex 20+4/ Con 14/Wis 14/Cha 20+2)
Soldier has: +4 Initiative, +10 feet, +4 Fort Saves, +3 Will Saves, +60 stamina (240 vs 180, 380 effective hp vs 320), +2 Resolve
Solarian has: +1 damage (Plasma Sheath), +1d6 and +7 save DC Supernova, more damage on damaging revelations, an extra Revelation, 5 more fire or cold resistance, more damage on some revelations, Stellar Paragon, +6 on Charisma Skills (equal to an operative with charisma 10).

Basically, the Blitzarian is better in basic attack combat early on, but the pure Solarian is going to have the potential to do much more damage with revelations and especially Supernova. Do you simply not use your zenith powers levels 1-8 as a Blitzarian? Late game, the way stat increases work means the Solarian is catching up in the basic attack department, but at the cost of Con and Wis. So now the trade off is between tankiness (extra Stamina, saves) versus revelations and save DCs. The Blitzarian's only AoE damage option late game is Miniature Star, as a 5-7 save DC deficit is huge. At 20, the pure Solarian with some charisma can still drop 21d6+4, save DC 26. On turn 1. The Soldier would have 20d6+4, save DC 19 on turn 3. And has 1 few photon zenith revelation when compared to the pure Solarian as Miniature Star and Supernova have alot of overlap.

In summary, the Solarian is closer to a fighter/mage hybrid tossing off fireballs in pathfinder while smacking people. The Blitzarian is probably closer to a Paladin using a few self buffs, then just smacking people. Some people will consider the extra AoE damage capability and option to choose those revelations that require a saving throw to be worth the trade off of early game basic attacks or late game tankiness.


I think Hiruma did a pretty good break down, but I would like to see a level 15 breaks down as well. I don't really count level 20 as most people won't play very much at that level. A couple of other things I'd like to note in the comparison. The blizarian is much more free in race choices. Anything with a charisma penalty is really a drag on a pure solarian at low levels. The class is so MAD that you really can't justify taking a race with a penalty below level 5. It can be done, but it is rough. After level 5 it's not really bad because of how starfinder works.

Overall I think the blitzarian is on par to better with the solarian as far as fighting goes all the way up until level 20 when a pure solarian gets it's capstone. IN the skills department, they are different. A solarian make a decent face if not "amazing" but if you go for that you give up a big portion of your skill points. A blizarian has more flexibility on it's skill choices. but will likely still be second string in any skills it focuses on as well. There's just so many people who are good at skills that you will not keep up. The pure solarian has the advantage that the skills that a face uses are not skills that most character builds focus on outside of envoys and the occasional operative.

Oh and a note on build, you can still go heavy armor on a Blitzarian. In fact that's what I did with my goblin. His starting stats were 18, 14, 10, 12, 10, 8. I stuck with heavy armor as my guys job is to be be punching bag. He does that admirably, and stil has a movement of 40 without any investment in it. Because of the blitz boost in speed you can run heavy armor very effectively. There are diminishing returns on movement speed, but in starfinder you it's very hard to get to a point of diminishing returns on armor class.


I appreciate the effort that went in to illustrate the counter point. I might trying mocking up a few characters with feats and all to see it worked out but you seemed to hit the major points.


One of the players I am GMing for is looking at a pure breed Solarian for Dead Suns, getting excited to see how the character handles :) field study!


This is very interesting. I don't really care about Level 20 builds as much as I do how a build handles on the way. I'm about to start Dead Suns (Levels 1-12) and this Blitzarian build might be more interesting than as pure build of either... Also thinking about a Dragonkin for the reach and wings. I'll probably never have the chance to play one again...


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If you're going to level 12, I'd probably suggest Str 18/Dex 14 as starting stats rather than 16/16.

If only because with a Str 16/Dex 16 start, the obvious bump is Str 18/Dex 18/Con 12/Wis 12 at 5th, and then Str 18/Dex 18/Con 14/Int 12/Wis 14/Cha 12 at 10th, leaving you with 12 in Charisma which isn't all that useful given the build premise. With augmentations you're looking at Str 22/Dex 20 at the end.

Str 18/Dex 14 goes Str 19/Dex 16/Con 12/Wis 12, then Str 20/Dex 18/Con 14/Wis 14. This gives you with augmentations the best strength, Str 24 and the same Dex 20. Such a build would use heavy armor levels 1-9, and then switches to light armor 10-12, which basically keeps you at the same AC the Dex 16 would have had. You're trading an extra skill at 10-12th and -5 feet movement at levels 1-9 for +1 to hit and damage in melee for slightly over half your adventuring career.

Alternatively, a Str 14/Dex 18 build could also be interesting as a high AC build switch hitter build. Still favor strength with personal augmentations (Str 16 at 3rd, Str 18 at 5th, Str 20 at 7th, Str 22 at 10th). End up with Str 22/Dex 22 at 10th. However, AC would generally be 1 higher than the first build, plus having solid heavy weapon options.

Depends alot on what the rest of your party composition looks like.


Looks like I'm going to have to tank. So AC is going to be key. I also realized with a reach weapon and large size I'll have 15' range on attacks. I think it might make sense to be a High AC, Area Denial type of combatant. Get in the front fast and plant myself as the center of interest for enemy targeting.

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