I have mostly hammered out my Oracle build for the Hell's Rebels AP. I now want some final advice and critiques on how to optimize the build from this point. One thing was that I heard Time is okay, but may not be the best Mystery to choose, does anyone have any suggestions about other good Mysteries? I don't want to Blast, I don't want to be a Battle Oracle, and I don't want to be a Healbot. But if any of the other Mysteries are potentially better at Support, Debuffing, and/or Battlefield Control, feel free to suggest them, and let me know how it should affect my current build.
CG Aasimar (Musetouched) Dual Cursed Oracle
Curses: Deep One and Tongues
Mystery: Time
25 Point Buy
Str 7
Dex 17 (+2)
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 12
Cha 19 (+2)
Traits (We get 2 regular + 1 campaign):
Campaign
Ex Asmodean (+1 Save DCs vs agents of House Thrune and most Devils)
Regular
Seeker (Perception as class skill and +1)
Second Chance
Feats
1 - Improved Initiative
3 - Craft Wondrous Item
5 - Craft Magic Arms and Armor
7 - Spell Penetration
9 - Craft Rod
11 - Heighten Spell
13 - Quicken Spell
15 - Greater Spell Penetration
17 - Piercing Spell
Revelations
1 - Misfortune
3 - Temporal Celerity
5 - Fortune
7 - Time Hop
11 - Time Sight
13 - Rewind Time
15 - Speed or Slow Time
Spells (Early draft, subject to much revision)
* denotes spell gained through FCB
M denotes gained as a bonus spell from Mystery
1st - Cure Light Wounds (1), Bless (1), Protection from Evil (1), Guidance (0), Detect Poison (0), Create Water (0), Read Magic (0)
2nd - Ill Omen (1M), Detect Magic (0)
3rd - Weapons Against Evil (1)
4th - Hold Person (2) Cure Moderate Wounds (2), Oracle's Burden (2M), Sanctuary (1*), Obscuring Mist (1)[replaces Bless], Purify Food and Drink (0)
5th - Resist Energy (2), Shield of Faith (1), Air Bubble (1*)
6th - Cure Serious Wounds (3), Summon Monster III (3), Bestow Curse (3M), Protection from Evil, Communal (2*), Liberating Command (1)[replaces Protection from Evil], Mending (0)
7th - Dispel Magic (3), Lesser Restoration (2), Admonishing Ray (2*), Embrace Destiny (1)
8th - Cure Critical Wounds (4), Threefold Aspect (4M), Blessing of Fervor (4), Resist Energy, Communal(3*), Silence (2)[replaces Resist Energy] Spark (0)
9th - Neutralize Poison (4), Stone Shape (3), Locate Object (3*), Darkness (2)
10th - Cure Light Wounds, Mass (5), Permanency (5M), Summon Monster V (5), Freedom of Movement (4*), Speak with Dead (3)[replaces Summon Monster III], Stabilize (0)
11th - Breath of Life (5), Restoration (4), Dimensional Anchor (4*), Remove Curse (3), Align Weapon (2)
12th - Cure Moderate Wounds, Mass (6), Contingency (6M), Heal (6), Wall of Stone (5*),
13th - Banishment (6), Break Enchantment (5), Raise Dead (5*), Protection from Energy, Communal (4)
14th - Cure Serious Wounds, Mass (7), Disintegrate (7M), Summon Monster VII (7), Dispel Magic, Greater (6*), Fickle Winds (5)[replaces Raise Dead]
15th - Ethereal Jaunt (7), Wind Walk (6), Harm (6*), Plane Shift (5)
16th - Cure Critical Wounds, Mass (8th), Temporal Stasis (8M),
Greater Planar Ally (8) Control Weather (7*)
17th - Stormbolts (8), Refuge (7), Regenerate (7*)
18th - Time Stop (9M), Miracle (9), Greater Spell Immunity (8*)
A 7 Str? Might have trouble carrying your gear.
I have no idea about Hells Rebels but make sure with your GM that there will be enought downtime in the AP to use your crafting feats.
Why heighten spell? To raise DCs? You don't seem to have very many debuff or direct damage spells.
Your dex is really high,why not drop it to 16 and raise your str to 8 and be able to carry a little more stuff. If you take Ant haul as known spell you can alleviate your carrying problems slightly.
I would not take Speak with dead as a known spell. I doubt there are so many times that you need to speak with dead that a few scrolls won't be enough.
Why do you take Raise Dead only to replace it with Fickle winds next level? I don't see you taking resurrection to take care of raising the careless meat shie... your Big strong fighter types.
Louise Bishop is an Oracle guru. She needs to chime in on this thread. Especially for high-level play.
Ok, let me respond to some of the things that have been said.
First, regarding carrying capacity. Generally the DM for this campaign has an ignore carrying capacity penalties unless you are being silly with it. (Aka as long as I am not trying to carry an Adventuring Gear mega utility sack and I craft a Handy Haversack reasonably early I am not going to take encumbrance penalties). Sorry, should have mentioned that I guess. Also this is kind of nitpicky, but I like having my primary and main secondary stat at odd numbers because in an AP you will get 4 Ability Score increases, so that allows me to put my first point into Charisma, my second to Dex, and the last 2 into Charisma, to end up with a 22 CHA and 18 DEX before items.
Now, on to the others. Unfortunately, I made some changes to the spell list a little over an hour after the thread was posted, so I couldn't edit the OP, but here is the updated spell list.
1st - Cure Light Wounds (1), Bless (1), Protection from Evil (1), Guidance (0), Detect Poison (0), Create Water (0), Read Magic (0)
2nd - Ill Omen (1M), Detect Magic (0)
3rd - Weapons Against Evil (1)
4th - Hold Person (2) Cure Moderate Wounds (2), Oracle's Burden (2M), Sanctuary (1*), Obscuring Mist (1)[replaces Bless], Purify Food and Drink (0)
5th - Resist Energy (2), Shield of Faith (1), Air Bubble (1*)
6th - Cure Serious Wounds (3), Summon Monster III (3), Bestow Curse (3M), Protection from Evil, Communal (2*), Liberating Command (1)[replaces Protection from Evil], Mending (0)
7th - Dispel Magic (3), Lesser Restoration (2), Admonishing Ray (2*), Embrace Destiny (1)
8th - Cure Critical Wounds (4), Threefold Aspect (4M), Blessing of Fervor (4), Resist Energy, Communal(3*), Silence (2)[replaces Resist Energy] Spark (0)
9th - Neutralize Poison (4), Stone Shape (3), Locate Object (3*), Darkness (2)
10th - Cure Light Wounds, Mass (5), Permanency (5M), Summon Monster V (5), Freedom of Movement (4*), Speak with Dead (3)[replaces Summon Monster III], Stabilize (0)
11th - Breath of Life (5), Restoration (4), Dimensional Anchor (4*), Remove Curse (3), Align Weapon (2)
12th - Cure Moderate Wounds, Mass (6), Contingency (6M), Heal (6), Wall of Stone (5*),
13th - Banishment (6), Break Enchantment (5), Raise Dead (5*), Protection from Energy, Communal (4)
14th - Cure Serious Wounds, Mass (7), Disintegrate (7M), Summon Monster VII (7), Dispel Magic, Greater (6*), Fickle Winds (5)[replaces Summon Monster V]
15th - Bestow Curse, Greater (7), Wind Walk (6), Harm (6*), Plane Shift (5)
16th - Cure Critical Wounds, Mass (8th), Temporal Stasis (8M),
Greater Planar Ally (8) Control Weather (7*) , Ethereal Jaunt (7)[replaces Summon Monster VII]
17th - Stormbolts (8), Refuge (7), Regenerate (7*)
18th - Time Stop (9M), Miracle (9), Greater Spell Immunity (8*)
I realized that I replaced Raise Dead at 1 level later and also noticed the level I replaced it was the same level I got Summon Monster VII, so I replaced Summon Monster V with Fickle Winds instead.
Good call on the Speak with Dead though, I was honestly on the fence about that one. What would you suggest as a replacement?
Regarding Heighten Spell, honestly I took it at 11 because I wanted to get more mileage out of Bestow Curse in the 11-14 levels before Greater Bestow Curse comes online at 15. It might not be worth it though, I am not sure. I am open to suggestions to replace it.
With Crafting, the DM has told us that we will have time for it.
I would love to hear from this Oracle guru!
Spell Focus necromancy for +1 to DCs and not raise their level.
Take Blindness (which is Necromancy, Curse) instead of Speak with dead.
I have toyed with the idea of casting Delay Poison, communal on the party and then spamming Irradiate spells.
Stone shape is always fun.
Magic Vestment lets you add all kinds of effects to your armor and not worry about armor bonuses.
If you have a permissive GM try being both the recipient and caster of the spell Collaborative Thaumaturgy. You are your own ally after all. At level 12 that means that at the cost of a 3rd level spell you can apply Enlarge, Extend, Still or Silent on any spell under level 6. Level 18 any spell under level 9.
Blood rage seems amazing for the non-barbarian melee guys in your party. For every 5 points of damage he takes he gets a cumulative +2 to str (max +10). When he reaches +10 you just heal him and he keeps the bonus (and AC penalty).
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I haven’t played Hell’s Rebels, but I assume you’ll end up fighting a fair number of devils and other evil outsiders, especially in later levels. The cleric/oracle spell list has a number of good spells that specifically target evil outsiders or do additional damage to them, like:
- Spear of purity (2nd)
- Holy Smite (4th)
- Dispel Evil (5th)
You'll want to be choosy because of your limited spells known, but I think these are worth consideration.
I also suggest Spiritual Ally (4th) - it's like a standard action summons of an intelligent creature under your control, bypasses DR, attacks as a spell and affects incorporeal enemies, provides a flanking buddy for your melee combatants, and can't be harmed by physical attacks.
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Here is what I would do. I would go through your list and ask what spells can be scrolls. Then by a mnemonic vestment. Drop those spells a pick up combat spells
Burst of Radiance is amazing
Grace is great
Prayer is a great spells when you need to double up on buffs
You may want align weapon early and the communal version
Invisibility purge is really useful and not that great on a scroll (riffle scroll will work)
Chains of light
Some form of light spell can be good (heightened continual flame).
Blindness
Boneshaker
Command/murdersous command (extended)
Airwalk and its communal verson are amazing to have.
Replaced Speak with Dead with Blindness/Deafness
Replaced Neutralize Poison (scroll fodder) with Spiritual Ally
Grand, those are some really good suggestions. I had heard of the Mnemonic Vestment but had never really looked into it as I almost always play prepared spellcasters, though now that I actually read it it would not be bad on them, just not quite as good. I am going to go through my list right now and do that.
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It is only for spontanious casters.
"If the wearer is a spontaneous caster, once per day she may use a spell slot to cast a spell from a written source (such as a scroll or spellbook) as if she knew that spell."
I consider it a must have for spontaneous casters. If you ever play a sorcerer and combine it with a ring of spell knowledge you can emulate a lot of what people like about prepared casters.
Here is a list of the spells I found for scrolls, and what they were replaced by. I also moved some spells around a bit to suit the new list.
Obscuring Mist (Murderous Command)
Stone Shape (Invisibility Purge)
Wind Walk (Chains of Light)
Break Enchantment (Air Walk, Communal)
Locate Object (Align Weapon, Communal)
Remove Curse (Prayer)
Raise Dead (Spell Resistance)
List:
1st - Cure Light Wounds (1), Bless (1), Murderous Command (1), Guidance (0), Detect Poison (0), Create Water (0), Read Magic (0)
2nd - Ill Omen (1M), Detect Magic (0)
3rd - Weapons Against Evil (1)
4th - Hold Person (2) Cure Moderate Wounds (2), Oracle's Burden (2M), Sanctuary (1*), Protection from Evil (1)[replaces Bless], Purify Food and Drink (0)
5th - Resist Energy (2), Shield of Faith (1), Air Bubble (1*)
6th - Cure Serious Wounds (3), Summon Monster III (3), Bestow Curse (3M), Protection from Evil, Communal (2*), Liberating Command (1)[replaces Protection from Evil],
Mending (0)
7th - Prayer (3), Lesser Restoration (2), Align Weapon (2*), Embrace Destiny (1)
8th - Cure Critical Wounds (4), Threefold Aspect (4M), Blessing of Fervor (4), Dispel Magic(3*), Silence (2)[replaces Resist Energy] Spark (0)
9th - Spiritual Ally (4), Resist Energy, Communal (3), Blindness/Deafness (3*), Darkness (2)
10th - Cure Light Wounds, Mass (5), Permanency (5M), Summon Monster V (5), Freedom of Movement (4*), Invisibility Purge (3)[replaces Summon Monster III], Stabilize (0)
11th - Breath of Life (5), Restoration (4), Dimensional Anchor (4*), Align Weapon, Communal (3), Admonishing Ray (2)
12th - Cure Moderate Wounds, Mass (6), Contingency (6M), Heal (6), Wall of Stone (5*),
13th - Banishment (6), Air Walk, Communal (5), Spell Resistance (5*), Protection from Energy, Communal (4)
14th - Cure Serious Wounds, Mass (7), Disintegrate (7M), Summon Monster VII (7), Chains of Light (6*), Fickle Winds (5)[replaces Summon Monster V]
15th - Bestow Curse, Greater (7), Dispel Magic, Greater (6), Harm (6*), Plane Shift (5)
16th - Cure Critical Wounds, Mass (8th), Temporal Stasis (8M), Greater Planar Ally (8) Control Weather (7*), Ethereal Jaunt (7)[replaces Summon Monster VII]
17th - Stormbolts (8), Refuge (7), Regenerate (7*)
18th - Time Stop (9M), Miracle (9), Greater Spell Immunity (8*)
Also regarding Mnemonic Vestment and Spontaneous Casters, I cant read apparently.
Any other specific examples of things I should change? Also, what about the Mystery itself? My gut says that Time has some really good stuff, but I don't know enough about Oracles to really know what Mysteries are best.
Time isn't one of the clear strongest Oracle mysteries, but it's a reasonable choice. Its primary weakness is that the spells it grants are mostly very poor. Instead of powerful time-themed spells like Haste and Slow, you get a lot of stuff that spontaneous casters really don't care about knowing. The class skills it grants are very good, and its mysteries are good but not character-defining. The Oracle class as a whole is strong enough that you don't have to choose the very strongest option available at every turn in order to have a cool and strong character, however, so if there are Time abilities that stand out to you as things you'd like to play with, you should absolutely select it. There are no Oracle Mysteries that are so bad that I would say they should never be selected; on the whole, they're pretty close well-balanced, although there are some (like Apocalypse, Outer Rifts, Spellscar, and Waves) that (in my opinion) are something of a cut below the others.
There's not really a "best" set of mysteries independent of what you imagine your character doing, and generally within any particular role there are several options that are within spitting distance of "best". For example, I would not feel like I can say that any of Ancestor, Battle, and Metal is definitively the best for fighty Oracles by a significant margin. Some are stronger at different levels, and the sorts of other utility they offer vary.