Resonance: what do you think?


Prerelease Discussion

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Kevin Mack wrote:
Cheeto Sam, Esquire wrote:
Nothing is more unheroic than sitting around for a minute or more after combat poking everyone with a clw wand.
More or less unheroic than deciding to rest for 8 hours which this will encourage more of.

CLW wands are definitely less heroic than a wounded warrior resting and licking his wounds, maybe under pressure of having to secure position against enemies still about, like in pretty much every piece of fantasy fiction in the history of the world that isn't Pathfinder / D&D.


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CharlieIAm wrote:

I need more information to know what to think. If a Cleric uses a Cure Wand on a Fighter, who gets charged Resonance; the Cleric, the Fighter, or both?

It does seem to pretty much eliminate the concept of the at-will item unless they're defined as "wielded" instead of "worn", like the Apprentice Cheating Gloves mentioned above.

By my understanding, it would just be the Cleric, but I may be mistaken.

They have said that one of their goals is to make magic items cooler/more interesting. My impression is that items like the cheating gloves might require you to attune them, but once attuned you can use them more or less freely? That would seem fairly in-line with the original setup of that item.

Liberty's Edge

CharlieIAm wrote:
It does seem to pretty much eliminate the concept of the at-will item unless they're defined as "wielded" instead of "worn", like the Apprentice Cheating Gloves mentioned above.

Not every use of a magic item will cost Resonance. Something like the Apprentice Cheating Gloves, for example, would almost certainly only require you to invest Resonance to wear them in the morning, they wouldn't charge Resonance for each use of the cantrips. It's just that individual items that would have had per-day uses before now use Resonance. Since the Apprentice Cheating Gloves didn't have a per day limit in the old system, they would be very unlikely to cost Resonance per use in the new one.


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Even one resonance per day is a heavy price to pay for PF1 Cantrips.


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Reposting from the original thread:

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Just don't make resonance apply to potions. They were already balanced by being very cost-inefficient, requiring double the actions to spam them in combat and actually being relevant to carrying capacity.

Nobody should be punished for carrying the beloved potion! That item never caused issues with the game. 50x potions would never replace the CLW Wand! It costs 4x as much and weights infinitely.

------------------------

And a potion or having the cleric cast a heal spell is way more heroic than the wand. These guys are willing to expend their super limited expensive resources to pull through! Instead of practically endless free-heal. When you make the decision to buy a potion and when you use it are pretty important!

I've run many of the APs at the lower levels and my players have managed to do a lot of the dungeons in 1 sitting by playing smart and having decent characters. Yes, sometimes the cleric will go into the final fight with almost no spells, or the fighter will be 40% Health, maybe the wizard is reduced to Magic Missiles and bonded item... But the bosses aren't THAT hard! It's very gratifying when they pull through. I think the challenges were intended to be this way.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I've seen several tables go "Well, we're screwed, have to sit down and heal up, damn the consequences... if the lieutenant was hitting us like a truck we can't handle the boss like we're at right now" in other campaigns.

If there's no solid healing, then...?


Fuzzypaws wrote:

I said this earlier in the other thread where Resonance was revealed, but potions specifically should be based on Constitution instead of spending Resonance. How healthy you are affects how much magic you can literally ingest without ill effect. Say, half your Constitution score per day with no ill effects, and after that you start rolling on the Potion Miscibility table.

Otherwise, I have no problem with Resonance. It means you can have as many magic rings or belts as you want, or like in real life can wear robes with armor, because you allocate the resonance where you want. It also reins in wand and scroll abuse.

Remember, it is based on Cha mod + level, not just Cha mod. So for those people above who seem upset Paizo is keeping you from wearing your Magic Item Christmas Tree, honestly it's not going to be so restrictive as to do that at the levels where you'd be likely to have a lot of items anyway. It will just keep you from overusing the activated abilities of all those items.

(I do wonder if certain items will cost 2 resonance, instead of just 1.... I guess we'll see.)

I could get behind this!


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Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


I've seen several tables go "Well, we're screwed, have to sit down and heal up, damn the consequences... if the lieutenant was hitting us like a truck we can't handle the boss like we're at right now" in other campaigns.

If there's no solid healing, then...?

Then the party rests, and the fate of the world rests in the hands of the gods.

And they've been munching some very buttery popcorn.


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Characters die when they go into a fight without sufficient hit points. GM style and lethality along with player skill will determine what sufficient hit points are.

I've gone back and forth on this. I dislike the idea that suboptimal items will not see use because it doesn't deal enough damage/mitigate enough damage to counteract the need for a consumable heal. I hadn't thought of that myself. I will admit the second I went "i like that idea" I immediately went into thinking how classes could play around with the resonance limit (class feats that give you +2 extra resonance per day).

If wands of healing (any type of healing) being used is a problem that should be minimised, resonance does the job in an inefficient way. If wands of CLW specifically are the problem, resonance is overkill.

Dark Archive

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I don't know why there is so much hate on the idea of resonance, especially for potions. I think it is an elegant system that changes up the game enough to make it interesting again.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

If potions keep their resonance cost, then they better do something more impressive than they look like they are doing.

Or at least if you are rolling for resonance, you can roll BEFORE trying to glug the thing down. I could see a desperate moment clutching a crystal vial, trying to focus enough to drive power into the liquid and activate it.

However, this is going to have to pend on seeing the whole picture. There are too many holes for me to say anything other than I think it is interesting, but can go sour pretty easily.


1. And suddenly Charisma stops to be dump stat for anyone.
2. Also: potions definitely should have their own rules - I think proposition of Con based save against efects of too many ingested arcana would be quite fine.
3. TBH when I read Resonance I hoped it would be some weird magic criplling chaos rules - where the more magical items you wear the more possible their auras start making weird s!+# with you - either cancelling effects temporarily, or enhancing, or blowing you up to slitherins. But then I never was a fan of Pathfinder magic which is basically constant and reliable, and always made HR, to make magic using more dangerous, where wizard was more intimidation factor for bandits than reliable goon ;)

Paizo Employee Designer

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JRutterbush wrote:
CharlieIAm wrote:
It does seem to pretty much eliminate the concept of the at-will item unless they're defined as "wielded" instead of "worn", like the Apprentice Cheating Gloves mentioned above.
Not every use of a magic item will cost Resonance. Something like the Apprentice Cheating Gloves, for example, would almost certainly only require you to invest Resonance to wear them in the morning, they wouldn't charge Resonance for each use of the cantrips. It's just that individual items that would have had per-day uses before now use Resonance. Since the Apprentice Cheating Gloves didn't have a per day limit in the old system, they would be very unlikely to cost Resonance per use in the new one.

This is essentially right. Many activated things would cost per use, but this would likely be a worn item that gives you an innate cantrip while invested by you.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Logan, since we have you here... are the concerns being raised about Resonance things that have already been brought up in internal discussion, without going into details?

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Hmm, yeah, after reading more on this, resonance itself seems fine(shared pool for all magic items, if you invest points then you can use item for free without problems, meaning more charisma and higher level you have more you have magic items you can use), I do agree with that having it work with potions is silly and if potions should be limited it would be more fun to have potion miscibility table.


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I dont like this at all. Paizo doesnt really get magic items, their system is worse than 3,5 (while being a copy of it), and just dont seem to get that having many magic items is fun. Also that good magic items are even more fun. Reasonably priced items, guess what, fun. Restricting them is not the way to go. Also, this makes charisma a very important stat. Having some dump stats is ok. I dont want to play a game where the most optimal ability spread is having all 14s, I want variety in stat generation between characters. And this is from someone who likes social skills so I usually play cha-based characters.


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Arakasius wrote:
CLW spamming is an abomination that prevents this game from ever being streamed online. It needs to die.

but who the hell even does that? it seems ineffective and time consuming. also, as GM, just restrict access to wands of CLW and the problem is solved. no need to 4E the s~!@ out of PF


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Logan Bonner wrote:


This is essentially right. Many activated things would cost per use, but this would likely be a worn item that gives you an innate cantrip while invested by you.

So even the weakest items require resonance spent or invested? Damn... that's unfortunate for my high magic setting.


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Arakasius wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:
Arakasius wrote:
CLW spamming is an abomination that prevents this game from ever being streamed online.
How???
Because if after a tough fight the players discussed poking someone with a stick 45 times to cap them up to full the audience would laugh and tune out. Have you read any fantasy novel where the heroes do that after a fight? It takes most tension out of fights (and especially out of any dungeon crawls) and short cuts a resource in the game. Generally players in rough series of fights should expect to not be at full health til they full rest, but current PF is balanced around some idea that you cap everyone up. Verisimilitude Is a thing and this idea of wand spamming completely breaks it. People don’t watch streams for mechanics, they watch it for role playing, memorable characters and heroic acts. CLW spammage undercuts all of this.

Suggestion: Add a new consumable - I'll call it a Healing Reservoir. Anyone can use it. It heals 100 points of damage, at a rate of 10HP per round spent holding it and not moving. It costs, say, 300gp.

No more wasting table time rolling dice for healing after a battle. Just work out how much healing you need and deduct it from the Reservoir's total.

(This assumes, of course, that we want PCs on full HP at the start of every encounter. If we want more of an 'attrition' game where you're trying to conserve your health over a series of battles, then limited healing based on short rests, spells, and Resonance items makes more sense.)


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I'm trying to keep an open mind, but this looks like a significant change to the feel of the game. It feels like a solution in search of a problem.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Milo v3 wrote:
Logan Bonner wrote:


This is essentially right. Many activated things would cost per use, but this would likely be a worn item that gives you an innate cantrip while invested by you.
So even the weakest items require resonance spent or invested? Damn... that's unfortunate for my high magic setting.

If it’s a home game you could easily houserule additional resonance (perhaps double the Resonance peen Cha bonus? Or start with a base Resonances of 5? Whatever make sense for your game)


Chance Wyvernspur wrote:
It feels like a solution in search of a problem.

I think the meta-problem here is that practically every aspect of the game is a problem to some people and not others. Stopping in the middle of a heroic quest to roll dice for wand-jabs, or drink twenty potions of healing, is ridiculous, or perfectly fine, depending on your point of view.


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Matthew Downie wrote:
Chance Wyvernspur wrote:
It feels like a solution in search of a problem.
I think the meta-problem here is that practically every aspect of the game is a problem to some people and not others. Stopping in the middle of a heroic quest to roll dice for wand-jabs, or drink twenty potions of healing, is ridiculous, or perfectly fine, depending on your point of view.

In which case, make it an optional/alternate rule, since the only 'problem' it solves (at the expense of two others) is really just a difference in playstyle.


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I think that the biggest problem is that this will disencourage more encounters in a day. This is really the opposite, wrong way of what we like to see...

Also, beyond that, seems that it'll be just another thing to track and worry. And yet, really should not be counting against potions and things like that. Will wands be "wielding" items?

The need to limit magic items is a real thing, but this resonance way seems not player-friendly, specially to new players.

Also seems that will decrease the flexibility of characters (like those whose like to have UMD).

But finally, and most critical, is that looks like every party will need a healer again now, the infamous "we-need-a-cleric-syndrome". This is really awful and an unexpected throwback.


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Count me in the crowd on "What was the Problem again?" Potions certainly weren't, not that I am aware of, and the wand of CLW, again, is a very specific Problem to be adressed by this.
As a fan of Critical Role (and that's my only contact with 5e) one of the Points I hate is their discussions about which three items can I attune. Every time I heard "Woa, that sounds cool - Oh, it needs to be attuned? No thanks", I shed a tear for the killed opportunities.
And if it was supposed to help the GM get a better grip on the groups capabilities - it totally doesn't. The Players will still have the bag of Holding with all Kinds of gimmicky items to pull out and spent their resonance on to kill your encounter.
So again - what design Goal is behind this? What Problem is adressed of what interesting mechanic is introduced? Bards can take two more sips of the healing potion does not really Sound interesting to me.


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Hythlodeus wrote:
Arakasius wrote:
CLW spamming is an abomination that prevents this game from ever being streamed online. It needs to die.
but who the hell even does that? it seems ineffective and time consuming. also, as GM, just restrict access to wands of CLW and the problem is solved. no need to 4E the s*@# out of PF

I kind of assumed everyone did that? Lots of my games involve picking up a wand of CLW and using that to top up health any time we need to avoid spending spells. It’s almost always one of the first purchases groups I’m in make, and several guides say something like, “healing is meaningless because you only need to be able to use a wand of CLW.” It’s the most cost-effective healing there is if you don’t have a Cleric.


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Reposted from the GCP Parts 3/4 thread:

OCEANSHIELDWOLPF 2.0 wrote:

I'm not against the Resonance rules as mechanics, but the flavor of them is not something I like. It smacks of attuning items, and the investing of personal power via a Cha-informed resonance seems forced. It feels like a brutal blanket to force ALL characters to interact with magic items this way, no matter that it will necessarily allow even the meanest of +1 swords be able to have extra powers accessible provided the burly Fighter wielding it has resonance left for the day.

And on that note, a dwindling resource/per day also seems verisimilitudinally uninspiring.


OCEANSHIELDWOLPF 2.0 wrote:

Reposted from the GCP Parts 3/4 thread:

OCEANSHIELDWOLPF 2.0 wrote:

I'm not against the Resonance rules as mechanics, but the flavor of them is not something I like. It smacks of attuning items, and the investing of personal power via a Cha-informed resonance seems forced. It feels like a brutal blanket to force ALL characters to interact with magic items this way, no matter that it will necessarily allow even the meanest of +1 swords be able to have extra powers accessible provided the burly Fighter wielding it has resonance left for the day.

And on that note, a dwindling resource/per day also seems verisimilitudinally uninspiring.

+1 swords won’t normally have extra powers, nor will they need attunement.


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Chance Wyvernspur wrote:
I'm trying to keep an open mind, but this looks like a significant change to the feel of the game. It feels like a solution in search of a problem.

[Emphasis mine]

I think that is what is making me feel a little perturbed. I'm not a fan of the attuning/investing. I'm not wanting the focus on magic items to be made more...focused. I want magic items to be less invasive - the "Big Six" and the Christmas Tree effect are going to be replaced by even more lit up Christmas trees.

As a fan of more low-magic settings, the concept of every character having to have a relationship with every magic item is anathema, and intrusive.

One the one hand I can understand tying it to Charisma, but also just as easily Constitution or Wisdom. Then again, that's what class features and archetypes are/were for. Making exceptions.

Mostly, I'm not a fan of the flavor at all. As for the mechanics....yet to be convinced.


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QuidEst wrote:
OCEANSHIELDWOLPF 2.0 wrote:

Reposted from the GCP Parts 3/4 thread:

OCEANSHIELDWOLPF 2.0 wrote:

I'm not against the Resonance rules as mechanics, but the flavor of them is not something I like. It smacks of attuning items, and the investing of personal power via a Cha-informed resonance seems forced. It feels like a brutal blanket to force ALL characters to interact with magic items this way, no matter that it will necessarily allow even the meanest of +1 swords be able to have extra powers accessible provided the burly Fighter wielding it has resonance left for the day.

And on that note, a dwindling resource/per day also seems verisimilitudinally uninspiring.

+1 swords won’t normally have extra powers, nor will they need attunement.

I think I'm the only one using attunement. ;) If you don't need to invest in every magic item that would be good. But I'm still not sold on investing my spirit power in magic items in the first place. It changes the fundamental nature of magic and magical interaction with the rules. For me. And not in a good way.

Silver Crusade

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RumpinRufus wrote:
Threeshades wrote:
Could someone tell me where i can read about this mechanic please?

They discuss it in the Pathfinder Playtest Part 3 at 58:45.

What I gathered from that discussion is:

  • Every character has a pool of "resonance" equal to Level+Cha
  • Using a magic item (including potions) costs one point of resonance
  • Once you run out of resonance, you must make a check any time you try to use a magic item
  • Resonance checks are "flat checks" - you receive no bonus on the d20 roll. The DC is 10 for the first resonance check, and you get no bonus to the roll.
  • Failing the resonance check causes that use of the magic item to fail
  • Fumbling the resonance check means you are cut off from using magic items for the rest of the day
  • At the start of the day, you "invest" resonance in items that you wear. This costs one point per item, but allows you to continue to benefit from the item even if you are "cut off" from fumbling your resonance check.
  • If you drink a potion but fail your resonance check, the potion is still consumed but you receive no benefit from it.

I’m not opposed to Resonance on spell trigger items, but I am concerned with it limiting the drink and gone potions as well. Having the check to allow you to “overclock” is nice but I rather prefer if that was kept for wands and the like and potions had something like the miscibility table.

Maybe instead of just not working there’s a delay on the potion taking effect?

(Not sure what to make of “Investing” other magic items yet)


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QuidEst wrote:
Hythlodeus wrote:
Arakasius wrote:
CLW spamming is an abomination that prevents this game from ever being streamed online. It needs to die.
but who the hell even does that? it seems ineffective and time consuming. also, as GM, just restrict access to wands of CLW and the problem is solved. no need to 4E the s*@# out of PF
I kind of assumed everyone did that? Lots of my games involve picking up a wand of CLW and using that to top up health any time we need to avoid spending spells. It’s almost always one of the first purchases groups I’m in make, and several guides say something like, “healing is meaningless because you only need to be able to use a wand of CLW.” It’s the most cost-effective healing there is if you don’t have a Cleric.

and as soon as wands of CMN or wands of CSW are in the cards, no one thinks twice about CLW anymore, so it is not like a bunch of 14th level characters are jerking their wands in a circle for hours of gameplay.

And as you said yourself, these wands are a way to play without dedicated healer (which can happen sometimes), so it's in itself a solution to a problem

Silver Crusade

Hythlodeus wrote:
QuidEst wrote:
Hythlodeus wrote:
Arakasius wrote:
CLW spamming is an abomination that prevents this game from ever being streamed online. It needs to die.
but who the hell even does that? it seems ineffective and time consuming. also, as GM, just restrict access to wands of CLW and the problem is solved. no need to 4E the s*@# out of PF
I kind of assumed everyone did that? Lots of my games involve picking up a wand of CLW and using that to top up health any time we need to avoid spending spells. It’s almost always one of the first purchases groups I’m in make, and several guides say something like, “healing is meaningless because you only need to be able to use a wand of CLW.” It’s the most cost-effective healing there is if you don’t have a Cleric.

and as soon as wands of CMN or wands of CSW are in the cards, no one thinks twice about CLW anymore, so it is not like a bunch of 14th level characters are jerking their wands in a circle for hours of gameplay.

And as you said yourself, these wands are a way to play without dedicated healer (which can happen sometimes), so it's in itself a solution to a problem

Unfortunately that isn’t true, as people tend to just stock up on CLW wands due to being significantly cheaper (and maybe having one CM or CS for use in combat of it calls for it).

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

While I’m all for more interesting results than “nothing happens”, I’m against having to consult a table. I don’t want to have to flip to the table of hilarious consequences every time the players make the dramatically interesting choice to push their Luck and overload on magic. I say if they fail give them a condition, or deal damage something easy to remember.
I don’t want characters ending up dealing with Willy Wonka style ironic punishments when they’re in a tense enough situation to push past their resonance cap.


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Your magic items are powered off the same "pool" you'll be using to stay alive, unless you can drag Timmy from down the street in to healbot for you.


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DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
If it’s a home game you could easily houserule additional resonance (perhaps double the Resonance peen Cha bonus? Or start with a base Resonances of 5? Whatever make sense for your game)

I'll probably need to say there are just some items which just flat-out ignore the resonance system, since it's unlikely for me to be able to come up with an amount of increased resonance for the average person in the setting to use items every few minutes which wouldn't remove the entire point of the resonance system.


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I don't like this concept from what I'm seeing so far.

If the design goal was to get rid of CLW spamming, just use the Starfinder rest mechanic to recover HP.

You want to get rid of numbers creep and required items (like the big six) bake that sort of stuff into character progression like Automatic Bonus Progression or the increased amount of stat bonuses at level ups you get in Starfinder.

Beyond that, you can limit other items by virtue of gold or some other means. Magic items are how non-casting characters stay relevant with casting characters around, at least in Pathfinder 1E. Since most martial classes have no or only limited usefulness from Charisma, this just imposes further limitations on them that make them worse and not better.

Overall, this sounds like bad idea and big turn off for me.

If this sort of system makes it into 2nd edition, I would probably stick to 1st edition and never convert.


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Rysky wrote:
Hythlodeus wrote:
QuidEst wrote:
Hythlodeus wrote:
Arakasius wrote:
CLW spamming is an abomination that prevents this game from ever being streamed online. It needs to die.
but who the hell even does that? it seems ineffective and time consuming. also, as GM, just restrict access to wands of CLW and the problem is solved. no need to 4E the s*@# out of PF
I kind of assumed everyone did that? Lots of my games involve picking up a wand of CLW and using that to top up health any time we need to avoid spending spells. It’s almost always one of the first purchases groups I’m in make, and several guides say something like, “healing is meaningless because you only need to be able to use a wand of CLW.” It’s the most cost-effective healing there is if you don’t have a Cleric.

and as soon as wands of CMN or wands of CSW are in the cards, no one thinks twice about CLW anymore, so it is not like a bunch of 14th level characters are jerking their wands in a circle for hours of gameplay.

And as you said yourself, these wands are a way to play without dedicated healer (which can happen sometimes), so it's in itself a solution to a problem

Unfortunately that isn’t true, as people tend to just stock up on CLW wands due to being significantly cheaper (and maybe having one CM or CS for use in combat of it calls for it).

in 18 years of playing 3.x I have never witnessed that behaviour, but again, if it comes up, why wouldn't the GM just restrict access to wands of CLW? why is the nuclear option the only way to adress a fringe problem?


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Hythlodeus wrote:
QuidEst wrote:
Hythlodeus wrote:
Arakasius wrote:
CLW spamming is an abomination that prevents this game from ever being streamed online. It needs to die.
but who the hell even does that? it seems ineffective and time consuming. also, as GM, just restrict access to wands of CLW and the problem is solved. no need to 4E the s*@# out of PF
I kind of assumed everyone did that? Lots of my games involve picking up a wand of CLW and using that to top up health any time we need to avoid spending spells. It’s almost always one of the first purchases groups I’m in make, and several guides say something like, “healing is meaningless because you only need to be able to use a wand of CLW.” It’s the most cost-effective healing there is if you don’t have a Cleric.

and as soon as wands of CMN or wands of CSW are in the cards, no one thinks twice about CLW anymore, so it is not like a bunch of 14th level characters are jerking their wands in a circle for hours of gameplay.

And as you said yourself, these wands are a way to play without dedicated healer (which can happen sometimes), so it's in itself a solution to a problem

That wastes a ton of money, though. It’s much cheaper to use CLW wands and hoard the potions of higher level healing spells found for in-combat emergencies.

The wands take it too far for some people, making “healer” a useless non-role when it’s something people genuinely want to focus on.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I'm a firm believer in the concept that things in the world shouldn't be needlessly gamified for no reason other than achieving some sort of balance.

The PF1 system makes sense: you can use anything you have a slot for, potions are always valuable and welcome, and wands (if you've got the appropriate skill or ability) are a useful toolbox. If the Queen gives you a magic cape that lets you fly, a circlet that protects you from the evil corruption, and a potion to grant you overflowing courage in order to defeat a certain foe, you shouldn't have to say "Sorry ma'am, I can't use these since I'm not high enough level to have enough points. Also, my build is kind of based on this one item so I just can't do it, sorry."

To which someone is going to respond "Then just waive the resonance cost for those plot specific items!" which is a patch on a patch for a problem that didn't exist.

Gold. People don't chug tons of potions because it costs money. If you play well and avoid lots of damage, you can squeak by with a bit extra WBL and everyone is happy and proud. If you run into trouble and have to chug all your potions and burn through some wands, you feel it in your pocket book but at least you're alive. And then the gold reward at the end is a lot more appreciated.

Resonance says: you've prepared well, sunk gold into having an answer to some problems you thought might come up, but since you're low level and not good at talking to people you just can't utilize it. Sorry.

So to sum up, I think Resonance is a Item Level in disguise, needlessly limiting, versimilitude breaking, and just not well thought out.


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My campaign settings do not have Wands of Cure Light Wounds

There are so many people who will not play in a game with me as the GM

I still don't see it as a problem for me

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

“I have not encountered this problem”

Is not the same as “This problem doesn’t exist”

Players in my games no matter what the campaign will pool resources to buy a wand of Cure Light Wounds as quickly as possible. Precisely so that they can heal back to maximum hit points between almost every encounter.

It’s just smart: 750 gp now saves you 5,000 gp of Diamond Dust later. Or worse having to spend an hour in the penalty box making a new character.

It’s also the least narratively interesting thing to do between fights. However spending 15 minutes readjusting armour, bandaging wounds and roleplaying between characters feels like something that could happen in a fantasy novel.


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QuidEst wrote:


The wands take it too far for some people, making “healer” a useless non-role

then don't allow them at your table. or restrict access.


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Resonance isn't a solution in search of a problem. It's a unification of all per-day magic item usage as well as a replacement of the body slot system. That fits their design goals of fewer mechanics and mechanics that allow more meaningful decisions. It's no more in search of a problem than retooling the action system is.

Healing between encounters is a separate problem and one we know they have their eye on because of Starfinder's stamina system. It's not productive to assume resonance doesn't work due to other systems you haven't seen yet.

I don't know that resonance is a good system yet. We haven't seen many details and I don't like the potion thing either. But saying it serves no purpose other than curbing CLW wands? That's disingenuous. It's readily apparent how this fits their design paradigm for 2E.


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DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

“I have not encountered this problem”

Is not the same as “This problem doesn’t exist”

no, but I highly doubt it is a problem that is as big or common as some here think it is.

and even if it were, this nuclear option is certainly the most inelegant way to deal with the problem


Pandora's wrote:
Resonance isn't a solution in search of a problem. It's a unification of all per-day magic item usage as well as a replacement of the body slot system. That fits their design goals of fewer mechanics and mechanics that allow more meaningful decisions...

I think this is important to keep in mind. Still not liking the vibe of it. But if you've read my posts over the years, like plenty of things I'm adamant I don't like, it will probably grow on me.


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Really, what is the core problem being addressed here? It feels like it comes down to:
"I want to be able to use magic items all day"

"I don't want encounters trivialized by infinite healing"
and
"I don't like the feel of 'cracking open a fresh pack of CLW wands for healing today'"
If their design goal is to eliminate the 'fresh pack of CLW,' there's an easy fix for that:
Make non-magical healing viable.

Reflavor the wands! Make it an item or skill use that 'with one minute of work, the treated character restores x HP' and make it competitive price-wise with what a wand is worth. Buff mundane stuff, don't nerf the magical.

The extreme example of getting rid of the CLW wand is to say that 'you may not benefit from a single Necromancy (healing) spell from a magical item more than once every five minutes' (I wouldn't advise that, though)

As it stands, not only does it have all the problems mentioned, it also kills the 'low-level rogue pretending to be a wizard with wands' trope, means anyone with a CHA penalty can't use magic until level 2 at a minimum, and gets rid of the 'mad wizard with a wand of fireballs, throwing fire every which-way' trope, all of which are a bit of a high price to pay for something that most people can't even agree as to whether it's a problem or not to begin with!

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