Last Pathfinder 1st Edition Adventure Path speculation


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I just realized that since Return of the Runelords is scheduled to have its final installment come out in January 2019, this means that we get exactly 1 more AP afterwards that has to support the Pathfinder 1st Edition rules (although it might have sidebars or other pointers for conversion to Pathfinder 2nd Edition, and Return of the Runelords conceivably could even have this as well, although it seems less likely due to the earlier state of the Pathfinder 2nd Edition Playtest(*)). As far as I know, not much has been said after the AP after Rise of the Runelords(**).

(*)And James Jacobs said that Return of the Runelords will be 100% 1st Edition Pathfinder, which leaves 0% for sidebars.

(**)Except that Eric Mona, who is also one of the announcers of Pathfinder 2nd Edition in the Join the Evolution! video, said "And WOW, that last AP is a DOOZY".

Made this new thread to avoid derailing the one about the Pathfinder 2nd Edition Playtest.


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RtotR would have been an excellent sendoff for 1E APs. However, it's out. We do know that it will explain how/why goblins will be promoted to a core race, but right now that's all we know. The only goblin-heavy AP to date has been Ironfang Invasion, developed by Crystal Frasier... and come to think of it, she will be developing this one too. Interesting.

Dark Archive

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Been wondering about it for some time and posted random guesses in different threads, following three are most out there ideas I have:

1) Dominions of the Black AP. It would definitely be out of there to have final ap of 1e be an alien invasion. Would also be culmination of Osirion doomsday clock thing and how one of original 3.5 adventures deal with Dominions of the Black's ancient astronaut stuff.

2) Stop Rovagug from escaping the AP. It would definitely be epic finale since destruction of the everything is at risk. And would be fitting since Golarion's whole purpose is to be Rovagug's cage.

3) Something Aroden related. Mostly because Pathfinder started out emphasising Aroden's death and things that spun out from that despite Aroden never being in focus afterwards, so it would be kind of nice book end before moving to second edition to finally deal with implications and meaning of what happened to Aroden.

Besides that, I have no real idea what would be good final adventure for edition material. I guess something like global Dragon War between Apsu and Dahak would be good too(since it would be only dragon focused AP Dungeons and DRAGONS inspired Pathfinder would have :D), but that hasn't been foreshadowed for long time unlike some of those other things that have been mentioned or referenced once in while.


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An Alkenstar/Mana Wastes AP would be fun!


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CorvusMask wrote:

Been wondering about it for some time and posted random guesses in different threads, following three are most out there ideas I have:

1) Dominions of the Black AP. It would definitely be out of there to have final ap of 1e be an alien invasion. Would also be culmination of Osirion doomsday clock thing and how one of original 3.5 adventures deal with Dominions of the Black's ancient astronaut stuff.

Considering the PF 2ed playtest adventure seems to imply multiple level scenarios around the inner sea and its name being Doomsday Dawn i think this is a strong contender. Playtest will allow showing how different people around the Inner Sea at different levels challenge the alien invasion while the AP could be the PCs who actually go and take down the Dominion invasion (Hopefully Independence Day style by sneaking aboard a mothership and taking out Dominion High Command)

Dark Archive

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Ah, yeah, now that I think about it few pictures related to Doomsday Dawn we have seen have related to Osirion. I hope it won't be the case were the whole dominion thing will be taken care in seven playtest adventures and never actually get its own ap <_<; That would be anticlimactic

Grand Lodge

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ABSALOM!!!!!

Throw in ARODEN stuff


CorvusMask wrote:
Ah, yeah, now that I think about it few pictures related to Doomsday Dawn we have seen have related to Osirion. I hope it won't be the case were the whole dominion thing will be taken care in seven playtest adventures and never actually get its own ap <_<; That would be anticlimactic

James Jacobs has confirmed Doomsday Dawn will be about the 4718 AR Dominion of the Black countdown clocks.

Shadow Lodge

So, as for the Final AP, I'm hoping for Groteus-worshippers being a plot point, certain that the End of the World is going to happen for real this time, only that it turns out it's just the end of an age in it.
If not, then that's who my PC will be.


James Jacobs very recently dropped this tidbit (including his specific wish for the Worldwound). Not sure whether this will only take effect with the AP that starts coming out at the same time Pathfinder 2nd Edition launches, or before.

Dark Archive

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Have to say that I'm actually pretty fricking happy about 2e assuming aps happened :D Because I plan to run all aps so it makes it easier to figure out aftermath for me


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I'm legit hoping the final AP has the PCs building up to fight a rampaging Tarrasque, and PF1 ends with the entirety of the Inner Sea region devastated and rebuilding.

Silver Crusade

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Dark Midian wrote:
I'm legit hoping the final AP has the PCs building up to fight a rampaging Tarrasque, and PF1 ends with the entirety of the Inner Sea region devastated and rebuilding.

1. One of the biggest draws of Pathfinder is the lack of "entire region devastated and rebuilding" kind of events.

2. At the current state of PF1 there are at least few ways to take out the Tarrasque with moderate ease. The forced reincarnation witch hex, to begin with. Bam, no SR, fail the save and ooops, Tarrasque in a kobold body. Tee hee.


Dark Midian wrote:
I'm legit hoping the final AP has the PCs building up to fight a rampaging Tarrasque, and PF1 ends with the entirety of the Inner Sea region devastated and rebuilding.

Absolutely not

Games Workshop killed their Warhammer Fantasy setting for what seemed to be no good reason. I sincerely hope Paizo will not do the same (I am almost certain they will not)

I would like something either:

- About Razmir : Indirectly the focus of the first module series. Of course the reason this probably can't / won't happen is they don't want him dead and there isn't an obvious campaign without you trying to beat him

- The "Return" of Aroden : With it somehow being a fake (ok perhaps this one is going too far)


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While I made a serious post above, a more silly speculation: Aroden has been fighting the main goblin god. As a result of the fight, Aroden and that god merge, he returns, but 1/8th of Golarion's CRB races' populations become goblins, hence, they are all "civilised" goblins (or as civilised as they'd ever be!).


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There are four goblin gods (and Lamashtu above them), so I'd consider that to be an unlikely scenario. :)


GIBZ ABSALOM PLZ K THNX

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

I don't know. The Time of Troubles event was ultimately a bad thing.


Having Aroden return and in the process kill the Goblin gods could explain why they aren't all crazy murderous illiterates: Their gods of slaughter are dead and the guy who beat them down is a god of civilization.


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Eh, I liked the 3rd edition Forgotten Realms version, so the Time of Troubles could not have been *that* bad.

The Spellplague event, however, was cancer. ^^

Dark Archive

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My guess? "Fate of Pharasma".


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I remember that 1st/2nd edition of AD&D had the Time of Troubles deal for Forgotten Realms, this was a kind of send off for old mechanics and classes. So perhaps the last AP has such a shake-up going on.

Liberty's Edge

All I know is that it won't involve Tian Xia or Arcadia... I'm sorely disappointed


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I would love ether a Galt one or Aroden


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I am hoping Nex in some way. Whether it involves the nation or the wizard i do not care, though both would be nice. Maybe start in the Nation of Nex and then move to the spire would be fun.


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Nex would be neat


Paizo developers have said that no great catastrophe will wreak Golarion at the transition from 1st Edition to 2nd Edition, but they have also said that in 2nd Edition, a noticeable amount of stuff that PCs succeed at in the 1st Edition APs will be considered canonical by default, and the current Age of Golarion is the Age of Lost Omens, so maybe the last 1st Edition AP will involve some quest to stabilize prophecy?

Grand Lodge

Except that prophesy gone or unreliable is one of the core conceits of the game -- if not the fundamental conceit -- making the PCs' actions able to have control over the setting instead of the setting's gods or Divine Purpose. Metagame-wise, that's the only reason Aroden is dead. Prophesy must be dead for the PCs to be the drive forward.


That has always been the problem with prophecies. Either they are game fluff where an oracle weaves around and utters the next plot thread, or the PCs have to pixel-hunt their way through Divuination.

Grand Lodge

Exactly, you can picture Jacobs and Mona, ten years ago, building this setting from their homebrew stuff and saying, 'Well, let's build an in-game function that illustrates that what the PCs do and will-do is what drives the setting-world forward. We could make a god of prophesy be the chief deity and then kill him right before the campaign setting begins. That'll really hammer in the idea that it's the PCs that drive the story/adventure forward.' ....So they come up with Aroden.


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Well, you could have it the other way around: Somebody (Asmodeus is a good candidate) is trying to create a weaponized prophecy, and the PCs have to stop this before the whole world falls under a new tyranny?


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UnArcaneElection wrote:

Well, you could have it the other way around: Somebody (Asmodeus is a good candidate) is trying to create a weaponized prophecy, and the PCs have to stop this before the whole world falls under a new tyranny?

that is a insanely good idea


J-Bone wrote:
All I know is that it won't involve Tian Xia or Arcadia... I'm sorely disappointed

You had to bring up Arcadia.....I have been waiting years for them to address that.....now it won't happen :(


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Erik Mona posted that they’d had some high level discussions about the non Inner Sea regions of Golarion and their prior treatment of it. He indicated they thought they might be able to do it better going forward. I realise some don’t want to purchase PF2 campaign setting material, but it sounded to me that those areas were definitely still on the table going forward.

For those of us who buy Paizo stuff for the flavour rather than the mechanics, the new edition won’t mean much in terms of fleshing out the world. There’ll no doubt be some repeated campaign setting books, but my impression from Erik was that they expected people to use flavour from the PF1 sourcebooks in their PF2 games and that new areas would be at least as important as converting old PF1 campaign setting books to PF2.

I was sure there’d be a new ISWG in year one, but Erik specifically called out that people have already bought a campaign setting twice (three times, if you count the Gazetteer) so even that may not be updated.

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Steve Geddes wrote:


I was sure there’d be a new ISWG in year one, but Erik specifically called out that people have already bought a campaign setting twice (three times, if you count the Gazetteer) so even that may not be updated.

Could always go for a full Golarion world guide (More focus on places outwith the inner sea while still provding some information about that region. cuts down on the repeat info but still allows them to present a world guide book for this edition)


That is a shame that we only were given the opportunity to play half of an AP in a non euro-setting before the end of the run of 1E games.


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Briit wrote:
That is a shame that we only were given the opportunity to play half of an AP in a non euro-setting before the end of the run of 1E games.

Serpent's Skull, Skull & Shackles, and Mummy's Mask are in Not!Africa, and Ruins of Azlant is in Not!America.


Joana wrote:
Briit wrote:
That is a shame that we only were given the opportunity to play half of an AP in a non euro-setting before the end of the run of 1E games.
Serpent's Skull, Skull & Shackles, and Mummy's Mask are in Not!Africa, and Ruins of Azlant is in Not!America.

More than half of Reign of Winter takes place outside of a Euro-setting as well

Legacy of Fire doesn't seem particularly euro-centered either. But I assume that is not counted because it was 3.5?

Given that I assume the original post is referring to Jade Regent I guess what it should say is "half of an AP in an Asian setting before end run of 1E games"


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Kevin Mack wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:
I was sure there’d be a new ISWG in year one, but Erik specifically called out that people have already bought a campaign setting twice (three times, if you count the Gazetteer) so even that may not be updated.
Could always go for a full Golarion world guide (More focus on places outwith the inner sea while still provding some information about that region. cuts down on the repeat info but still allows them to present a world guide book for this edition)

I doubt that will be the strategy. If I understood him right, the conclusion they reached was that holding off on "faux Asia" until they were ready to do a little-bit-of-everything was perhaps not the right strategy. That there would be benefits in covering fewer areas in more depth, rather than trying to replicate the coverage of the Inner Sea in one go.

I'm reading quite a lot into a single, throwaway sentence - so I'd take all this with a grain of salt. Nonetheless, it gave me hope that we'd get a sourcebook on a single south Garundi nation rather than a book mapping the entire southern continent (for example).


RoW was disappointing to be since only 2 books did any real plane hopping. The rest took place in the hut or treking to the hut.


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Quote:
and Ruins of Azlant is in Not!America.

More like not!Atlantida

And TBH Varisia in some ways is more like California than Western Europe, and Shoanti has some Amerindian vibe to them despite being half-Romani, half-Cro-Magnon, half-Viking people.

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

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W E Ray wrote:
Exactly, you can picture Jacobs and Mona, ten years ago, building this setting from their homebrew stuff and saying, 'Well, let's build an in-game function that illustrates that what the PCs do and will-do is what drives the setting-world forward. We could make a god of prophesy be the chief deity and then kill him right before the campaign setting begins. That'll really hammer in the idea that it's the PCs that drive the story/adventure forward.' ....So they come up with Aroden.

This is exactly what happened, only this one I take complete credit for. James rightfully gets credit for almost all of the other core gods, but Aroden and Iomedae are mine, I tell you, mine!

And really, Aroden exists explicitly for the purpose you describe.

Dark Archive

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I do honestly wonder how common were prophecy stories in D&D ._. I mean, I've noticed that lot of folks in Paizo forum has strong dislike of prophecy in P&P, was it really that common?

I mean, prophecies are like fortune telling, you just need to make them vague and then they fit everything, but more explicit prophecies are hard to pull of in P&P since players might just get distracted or bored even if they don't aim to purposely avoid the prophecy. I guess I could see someone giving bonuses if players try to find loophole to fulfill the prophecy or try to fulfill it by letter, but I doubt that was done in D&D? Either way, prophecies in core doesn't really sound different from artifact destruction clauses, they follow the format of "Ah, this relic of god shall never be destroyed unless something impossible like this happens!", but I still find it hard to believe they were often used

But I digress, I do agree its great way to bake in player agency to the minds of players :D


MannyGoblin wrote:
RoW was disappointing to be since only 2 books did any real plane hopping. The rest took place in the hut or treking to the hut.

Just in case anyone doesn't already know about Reign of Winter:
And some of the the time you aren't in not-Europe you are in Earth's own Europe.

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CorvusMask wrote:

I do honestly wonder how common were prophecy stories in D&D ._. I mean, I've noticed that lot of folks in Paizo forum has strong dislike of prophecy in P&P, was it really that common?

I mean, prophecies are like fortune telling, you just need to make them vague and then they fit everything, but more explicit prophecies are hard to pull of in P&P since players might just get distracted or bored even if they don't aim to purposely avoid the prophecy. I guess I could see someone giving bonuses if players try to find loophole to fulfill the prophecy or try to fulfill it by letter, but I doubt that was done in D&D? Either way, prophecies in core doesn't really sound different from artifact destruction clauses, they follow the format of "Ah, this relic of god shall never be destroyed unless something impossible like this happens!", but I still find it hard to believe they were often used

Prophecy stories may not have appeared in print much.

However, they used to receive submissions as editors of Dungeon. So in those days perhaps they were bombarded with them (even though, having editorial control, Paizo could keep those stories from being seen by us - they were still there).

Jon Brazer Enterprises

Last AP Theory: The Civilization of Goblins

This AP starts with a goblin plague, killing off all the zaney goblins, leaving only playable goblins behind. The players are goblins and it is the story of them trying to find and settle in a homeland.

You handle a great migration and attempting to overcome prejudices of the past.

The AP ends with the now closed Worldwound now being called Goblintopia.


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I'm calling a second Goblinsblood War in Isger.

Eh... neh... that'd be too close to Ironfang...

So... how about... umm... Jalmeray? That might be fun. Vudran themed and crazy bollywood style high adventure.


CorvusMask wrote:

I do honestly wonder how common were prophecy stories in D&D ._. I mean, I've noticed that lot of folks in Paizo forum has strong dislike of prophecy in P&P, was it really that common?

I mean, prophecies are like fortune telling, you just need to make them vague and then they fit everything, but more explicit prophecies are hard to pull of in P&P since players might just get distracted or bored even if they don't aim to purposely avoid the prophecy. I guess I could see someone giving bonuses if players try to find loophole to fulfill the prophecy or try to fulfill it by letter, but I doubt that was done in D&D? Either way, prophecies in core doesn't really sound different from artifact destruction clauses, they follow the format of "Ah, this relic of god shall never be destroyed unless something impossible like this happens!", but I still find it hard to believe they were often used

Agreed, the Aroden metaorigin has always sounded like really weird pride in solving a problem that never existed.


Dale McCoy Jr wrote:

Last AP Theory: The Civilization of Goblins

This AP starts with a goblin plague, killing off all the zaney goblins, leaving only playable goblins behind. The players are goblins and it is the story of them trying to find and settle in a homeland.

You handle a great migration and attempting to overcome prejudices of the past.

The AP ends with the now closed Worldwound now being called Goblintopia.

If goblins lose their zaniness, they are just ugly halflings/gnomes


Xenocrat wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:

I do honestly wonder how common were prophecy stories in D&D ._. I mean, I've noticed that lot of folks in Paizo forum has strong dislike of prophecy in P&P, was it really that common?

I mean, prophecies are like fortune telling, you just need to make them vague and then they fit everything, but more explicit prophecies are hard to pull of in P&P since players might just get distracted or bored even if they don't aim to purposely avoid the prophecy. I guess I could see someone giving bonuses if players try to find loophole to fulfill the prophecy or try to fulfill it by letter, but I doubt that was done in D&D? Either way, prophecies in core doesn't really sound different from artifact destruction clauses, they follow the format of "Ah, this relic of god shall never be destroyed unless something impossible like this happens!", but I still find it hard to believe they were often used

Agreed, the Aroden metaorigin has always sounded like really weird pride in solving a problem that never existed.

Prophecies are very common in fantasy literature. It is more pronounced in real-world folklore and mythology, which seems - at least in part - to be the intent to diverge and remain away from, perhaps being viewed as a 'crutch' in terms of writing adventures.

More on-topic: Perhaps the conclusion of matters regarding the Doomsday Clocks as part of transitioning to PF2 begins a new Age on Golarion. Which Age remains to be seen ...

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