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Shadow Lodge

I am cautiously optimistic about Pathfinder 2, and from what I've read of Starfinder & Pathfinder Unchained, I'm certain 2nd Edition will be at least just as fun as 1st. Though there is a thing or two that I'm iffy about at present, I'll just point out my worries about it if they haven't already been brought up, and not declare that Groteus has crashed into Pharasma's throne about it.


So can I preorder the books yet?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Saint Bernard wrote:
So can I preorder the books yet?

Nope. They changed it around a little to help make it possible for people to pick up their copy at Gen Con. It is now March 27th that they will start taking pre-orders.

*sigh*


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Drat! Well, I wish that information had been easier to find! I've been looking for the pre-order for awhile.


Patrick Newcarry wrote:
Jason Bulmahn wrote:
james014Aura wrote:
Rereading some stuff: I sincerely hope skill proficiencies are not at all like they are in 5e, where all it does is prevent skill customization.
Not at all. You get to pick how you gain the levels of proficiency with your skills. It's your choice.

Do wait...

Are we leveling our skills???
My mind was just blown, in the best way possible!

I have a general request for the new edition. Maybe this has already been addressed, maybe not.

Would it be possible to take a thesaurus to the word 'LEVEL'? One of my gripes for decades has been overuse of that single word. Whenever I run or play in a game with novice players, they are constantly confused by "spell level" vs "caster level", expecting a 3rd level wizard to cast 3rd level spells. Then there's the old OotS joke about going down a dungeon level and up a character level. And that's just a couple prominent examples. The word is just so heavily used that it can be hard to tell one meaning from another.

In my own campaigns I started renaming "spell level" to "spell tier" just to reduce confusion, only that left me explaining the change every time my players went back to the rulebooks and saw "spell level". I also noticed that 'tier' is used in PF Society to indicate character level intervals for adventures, so that's one less available alternative term to use in the rulebooks themselves.


Greetings,

I've been creating tools for both D&D and Pathfinder for over a decade, and I was wondering: Will [other] 3rd party publishers be able to gain access to the play test rules in advance, to prepare new products for the 2nd edition?

I ask because it takes many many months of hard work to create a new tool (like I did for the 5th edition of D&D) and having a 'baseline' in advance greatly helps to be competitive - even if these are not the final rules.

The FAQ includes a mention that [some] 3rd party developers were already ...reviewing the play test rules and determining their best steps forward. Some might be ready by launch on August 2, while others will provide basic services through the play test and fully implement the rules for the official release in the future

So if the other 3rd party developers already have copies of the play test rules, how can I, as a 3rd party publisher, get the same access?

Thank you for your time,

The Only Sheet
admin@TheOnlySheet.com

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

The FAQ is talking about commercial licensees. We are not providing early access to the playtest rules to any non-commercial licensees. Information on how publishers can get early access to the finished rules will be announced in 2019; expect it to be very much like what we've done with the current Pathfinder and Starfinder Compatibility Licenses.

Dark Archive

So no new previews today?


TiwazBlackhand wrote:
So no new previews today?

It has been on the blog for an hour, but it's not tagged to show up in the Playtest forum.


Is it just me, or is it damn near impossible to find where to preorder 2nd ed on this website?


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Old Guy GM wrote:
Is it just me, or is it damn near impossible to find where to preorder 2nd ed on this website?

I don't believe the option's been switched on yet. The Paizo offices don't open for another 25 minutes.


Old Guy GM wrote:
Is it just me, or is it damn near impossible to find where to preorder 2nd ed on this website?

You're not actually preordering PF2.

The only thing you can preorder today is playtest rules that will be obsolete in Aug 2019

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I hope Friday's preview is Ancestries. That's the next non-class thing I really want to know something about.

Stupid 4 month wait for the playtest books...


Hey, I can't figure out where to download these PDFs. Can someone please help me out?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

The PDFs won't be available until August 2nd.

Grand Lodge

15 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps Subscriber

Hey all.

The Playtest forums are so crazy right now with theories, indignation and repetitive threads that they’ve become challenging for casual readers like myself to follow, so I thought I’d share with others my strategy for skimming them.

I have decided the best way for me to navigate them is to go through the Developer’s posts directly. Each day, I look at the posts of three of the main 2e developers, and see what they’ve posted. Following them has turned out to be a more efficient way for me as a reader to skim for real information than wading through all the threads (many of which seem to be repetitive) on here. Doing this has led me to some interesting discussions without having to spend so much time glued to my screen.

Jason Bulmahn
Mark Seifter
Logan Bonner

It’s also helpful to sometimes look at the posts of Erik Mona, Vic Wertz and Owen KC Stephens.

#secretlibrarianresearchtricks
#stalkerhmm


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Very nice idea.... I had almost given up on following the Playtest forum because of all the lunacy going on.

Thanks hmm,

-- david


I'm slowly getting to that point myself. I just keep adding to my pile of "don't show me new posts" threads, though, and that works pretty well for now.

Thank you for the handy links, Hmm!

Shadow Lodge

4 people marked this as a favorite.

I'm a glutton for punishment.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

Same.


Yeah, seeing this evolve and devolve reminds me of the Alpha and Beta playtests. Strange that it's for a different game though. :)

Silver Crusade

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Hmm wrote:

Hey all.

The Playtest forums are so crazy right now with theories, indignation and repetitive threads that they’ve become challenging for casual readers like myself to follow, so I thought I’d share with others my strategy for skimming them.

I have decided the best way for me to navigate them is to go through the Developer’s posts directly. Each day, I look at the posts of three of the main 2e developers, and see what they’ve posted. Following them has turned out to be a more efficient way for me as a reader to skim for real information than wading through all the threads (many of which seem to be repetitive) on here. Doing this has led me to some interesting discussions without having to spend so much time glued to my screen.

Jason Bulmahn
Mark Seifter
Logan Bonner

It’s also helpful to sometimes look at the posts of Erik Mona, Vic Wertz and Owen KC Stephens.

#secretlibrarianresearchtricks
#stalkerhmm

Is it weird that I found this post, by tracking your posts ?

Grand Lodge

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps Subscriber

You track my posts? You must really like musical parodies, Sebastian!

Hmm


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

Hey, Paizo. Loved the playtest podcast with the folks at Glass Cannon (and glad to have been introduced to GCP). I'm cautiously optimistic about the new rules and I enjoyed playtesting the original Pathfinder rules.

I'm curious about Gen Con. They have released their schedule of events and I don't see any entries for chances to play the Pathfinder Second Edition playtest (and very few entries for Starfinder). Are there going to be opportunities to play the new playtest rules at Gen Con and if so, do you have a rough idea of when they'll be posted on the Gen Con website so we can sign up?

Grand Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps Subscriber

There will be opportunities to try the Play Test at Gen Con. I know, because I am part of the Team that will be demoing the Play Test in the Demo Hall. There will also be quest tables in the Sagamore and likely other adventures. None of Organized Play’s offering appear to be on the Gen Con site yet, but keep posted!

Hmm

Grand Lodge

6 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps Subscriber

For those who want to get more in depth with following Paizo Staff Posts, check out this nifty post by Joe M on using Feedly or other RSS Readers.

It is librarian-approved!

Hmm

Silver Crusade

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Hmm wrote:

For those who want to get more in depth with following Paizo Staff Posts, check out this nifty post by Joe M on using Feedly or other RSS Readers.

It is librarian-approved!

Hmm

Sold.


gustavo iglesias wrote:
Brother Fen wrote:

Not all positive. I don't want my books invalidated, thus I don't want a 2.0.

I'd rather Paizo went after HEROFINDER or something else to give them the chance to continue making new content without driving away previous customers.

If they went that route, built a brand new game of Herofinder, and still stop to produce the old Pathfinder... what would you gain? I'm missing something here, I feel.

Actually, there's quite a lot being missed all around.

I don't why I'm replying as I neither run the company nor am a new gamer and thus am irrelevant.

In case you haven't noticed, superhero movies are the biggest blockbusters of all time and are at the top of the current pop culture zeitgeist.

TSR managed to publish Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, Star Frontiers and Marvel Super Heroes for years with great success.

HEROFINDER. Missed opportunity. Paizo could easily publish Pathfinder adventures every other month with the in-between months alternating between Starfinder and Herofinder.

There you go. I just plotted out the publishing schedule.

If you need any more great ideas, I'll be sulking in my Pathfinder Grognard thread.


Superheroes are a very different genre in many ways. I suspect Herofinder would need to be very different than either SF or PF.
The return on investment from another genre isn't likely to be as good as a successful PF2.

And while TSR published those 3 (and some others from time to time), I don't think the others were more than a tiny fraction of AD&D's market share.

D&D has always been the big dog in this small field - with the exception of Pathfinder when 4E wasn't a success and maybe something else during the waning years of AD&D2

Paizo Employee

3 people marked this as a favorite.
thejeff wrote:


And while TSR published those 3 (and some others from time to time), I don't think the others were more than a tiny fraction of AD&D's market share.

TSR also literally almost put themselves out of business by becoming their own competition with competing campaign settings and product lines. Companies tend to be much more successful when they find a niche they're strong in and focus on that, expanding carefully and into under-supported niches. Paizo still has significantly fewer than 100 employees total, so stretching themselves thin trying to support multiple product lines (especially when there are strong contenders already supporting many of the other genres), doesn't make a lot of sense business-wise.

Starfinder works because there was a fairly notable hole in the sci-fan TTRPG market; outside of really specific settings like Star Wars, there wasn't a strong contender offering support for that kind of game, and of the systems that were floating out there, the well-known ones aren't currently using the familiar d20 framework, so there was a clear opportunity there. Compare to the superhero market which is supported by Mutants & Masterminds, Cypher System, Marvel Heroic Roleplaying, Champions, Bash!, Prowlers & Paragons, etc. and you're looking at a fairly crowded market where the most likely customers would be the ones you already have, except now you're forcing them to choose between which of your product lines to support.


Ssalarn wrote:


Starfinder works because there was a fairly notable hole in the sci-fan TTRPG market; outside of really specific settings like Star Wars, there wasn't a strong contender offering support for that kind of game, and of the systems that were floating out there, the well-known ones aren't currently using the familiar d20 framework, so there was a clear opportunity there. Compare to the superhero market which is supported by Mutants & Masterminds, Cypher System, Marvel Heroic Roleplaying, Champions, Bash!, Prowlers & Paragons, etc. and you're looking at a fairly crowded market where the most likely customers would be the ones you already have, except now you're forcing them to choose between which of your product lines to support.

And none of those systems, despite being profitable are really the cash cows you might expect given that "superhero movies are the biggest blockbusters of all time and are at the top of the current pop culture zeitgeist."

That might mean there's an untapped market or it might mean it's hard to tap that market with RPGs.


Is there a 'How to Playtest helpfully' thread/guide anywhere?

Paizo Employee Customer Service & Community Manager

6 people marked this as a favorite.

Hey everyone, quick moderation update. The Playtest discussion threads have added a huge number of new posts per day to our forums. Our moderation resources are a bit overwhelmed. After talking with Jason, we've determined that we are going to be locking Playtest Blog discussion threads after a few weeks to help us stay on top of things. Thanks!


After a few more weeks or for a few weeks until closer to 2nd August? I can see where both are a viable option. :)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Hm, I get it. But if the preview blogs result in too many posts, I imagine the actual playtest forums (with everyone discussing everything simultaneously!) may break the Internet.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps Subscriber

So you’ll be locking each Playtest blog after it’s been up three weeks? This makes me a sad panda, but I can see that the quality of the commentary drops after a while. I do have the concern that if the blogs are locked, the commentary will just spread wildfire to other parts of the site...

But it’s worth a shot. We want all of you sane and not-overwhelmed.

Hmm

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.

It does make me think then, that largely, they will not be paying as close attention to all the ancillary threads.

Grand Lodge

What problem is this new edition trying to solve?

Having been through all of the D&D edition changes since first edition, I always ask what a new edition of a game offers me before I jump in to play.

I'd definitely say that Pathfinder 1st edition provided an alternative to 4th edition D&D, which felt the least like D&D for me. I was able to continue to use the 3rd edition stuff I had accumulated, and I was able to find a lot of good, local games to play. And 1st edition Pathfinder definitely improved upon the material that had come before it.

I can also point out edition failures that I have seen. The big one that comes to mind is the switch from Vampire: the Masquerade to Vampire: the Requiem. The later completely failed to capture my imagination. and others to. I'd say this is when a lot of people made the leap from Vampire to 3rd edition D&D. The other obvious one that comes to mind is 4th edition D&D. This failure provided a great opportunity for Paizo to provide material to the player base that didn't care to make the leap to 4th. I was even pitched the game at the airport flying back from GEN CON.

Now, locally, I am seeing Pathfinder give way to D&D 5th edition, which kinda feels like a midway point between 2nd and 3rd edition. People enjoy playing it, and it's a fresh new experience after having played Pathfinder for the last decade.

What will Pathfinder 2nd edition offer to convince players to make the leap from 5th edition D&D to Pathfinder 2nd edition? 5th edition isn't an obvious failure like 4th edition.

I am ultimately going to play the game, where I can find people to play with locally. I'll either end up playing your new 2nd edition game or 5th edition D&D, which is currently what I'm playing now due to game availability. It became the new shiny locally.

What I want to know is what about this new edition will entice people to make the jump.

Liberty's Edge

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bdub wrote:
What I want to know is what about this new edition will entice people to make the jump.

Evidence suggests it provides three major things as compared to 5E:

1. Vastly increased customization. For a lot of 5E characters, all your meaningful choices are made by 3rd level (maybe 5th if you have a Feat you need), and you never made all that many to start with (Class, Race, Archetype...very little else, even Background tending not matter all that much). PF2 has at least one serious choice every level you gain, and at least a couple more even at 1st level (Feats almost every level, Skills actually being something you can invest in over time, etc.).

2. Higher Power Level/Character Level Matters More. In PF2 you add your full character level to, well, a lot of things including attacks and AC, meaning that level matters a lot more in terms of character abilities. The opposite of bounded accuracy, high level characters can waltz through low level enemies like they are nothing. In a related matter, high level martial characters get to do stuff like run on air, leap twenty feet up and drag flying enemies down with them, and similar epic feats. It's just a lot less 'low key' in some ways than a lot of 5E stuff.

3. Content. Paizo don't seem to be planning to slow down their book schedule, which means you're going to be getting way more hardcover rulebooks for PF2 than D&D5E. Plus the Adventure Paths. Plus all the other stuff. 5E's mostly had a fairly sedate release schedule. PF2 seems unlikely to follow suit in that regard. It also gives you access to Golarion, which is a fun world as kitchen sink fantasy worlds go, and already has a lot of information available about it.

Additionally, and this may only matter to me, but the monster design for PF2 seems more concerned with giving them things to do outside of combat, which is something fundamentally lacking in a lot of 5E monsters (and was always the reason I could never run that game).


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Additionally, and this may only matter to me, but the monster design for PF2 seems more concerned with giving them things to do outside of combat, which is something fundamentally lacking in a lot of 5E monsters (and was always the reason I could never run that game).

Yeah, I understand cutting back on SLAs, but they gutted so many monsters, very few demons and devils can even cast spells. It's fun adding them back in, though, like blade barrier for the marilith, what were they thinking dropping that one...

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Well, the books coming out will be somewhat less than PF1 as PF2 will share a schedule with Starfinder where PF1 did not.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Weather Report wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Additionally, and this may only matter to me, but the monster design for PF2 seems more concerned with giving them things to do outside of combat, which is something fundamentally lacking in a lot of 5E monsters (and was always the reason I could never run that game).
Yeah, I understand cutting back on SLAs, but they gutted so many monsters, very few demons and devils can even cast spells. It's fun adding them back in, though, like blade barrier for the marilith, what were they thinking dropping that one...

What were they thinking? Likely that while Marilith casts her buffs (BB and fly), the party uses its action economy advantage to Rodney King the Marilith apart. Because that's how combat against melee-oriented outsiders with SLAs looks like if you try to run it "the way it was intended".


Gorbacz wrote:
Weather Report wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Additionally, and this may only matter to me, but the monster design for PF2 seems more concerned with giving them things to do outside of combat, which is something fundamentally lacking in a lot of 5E monsters (and was always the reason I could never run that game).
Yeah, I understand cutting back on SLAs, but they gutted so many monsters, very few demons and devils can even cast spells. It's fun adding them back in, though, like blade barrier for the marilith, what were they thinking dropping that one...
What were they thinking? Likely that while Marilith casts her buffs (BB and fly), the party uses its action economy advantage to Rodney King the Marilith apart. Because that's how combat against melee-oriented outsiders with SLAs looks like if you try to run it "the way it was intended".

I supposed it could get Rodneyd, in the right circumstances, so, take away the options completely, and any potential out of combat abilities/utility? If Teleport is all they got going, it should at least be a Bonus action.


thaX wrote:
Well, the books coming out will be somewhat less than PF1 as PF2 will share a schedule with Starfinder where PF1 did not.

Is this conjecture or have I missed some official post? From what I've seen Paizo post on the matter, plus all the new hires they keep announcing, a drop in production for Pathfinder would surprise me.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Not a drop in production, a sharing of resources. This is my conjecture, of course, but Pathfinder was the only product for Paizo for a long time, and now it has Starfinder in addition to the Pathfinder game. I am sure the amount of products will increase, but my point is that with both settings being supported, that doesn't mean that Pathfinder will continue to be put out at the same pace as it was in the past.

Liberty's Edge

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thaX wrote:
Not a drop in production, a sharing of resources. This is my conjecture, of course, but Pathfinder was the only product for Paizo for a long time, and now it has Starfinder in addition to the Pathfinder game. I am sure the amount of products will increase, but my point is that with both settings being supported, that doesn't mean that Pathfinder will continue to be put out at the same pace as it was in the past.

They hired new people so as to keep up with Pathfinder production. Pathfinder production thus seems likely to continue apace.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

A measured schedule that is different than the previous one could be a consideration, concentrating more on adventures (Through AP's and Modules or some other products) and supporting both settings equally as well as giving time for editing and proofreading.

We don't really know at this point what is going to happen, but I imagine that the focus will shift slightly to avoid repeating content that is already in PF1 without offering something new.


Will Paizo be looking for feedback from online games? Or is the format too slow for that to be valuable to you?

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Kamaloo wrote:
Will Paizo be looking for feedback from online games? Or is the format too slow for that to be valuable to you?

We'll have an ear open for feedback for quite a while.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps Subscriber

Yay, because we’ll be singing them to you, Vic!!

Are you part of Cottonseed Lodge, Kamaloo? There’s playtest PBP action that will be happening there.

Hmm

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