Melee Attack with a ranged weapon?


Rules Questions


When I was in the Army, one of the things we spent a lot of time practicing was melee (hand to hand) combat using our rifles as weapons. Stabbing and slashing with a fixed bayonet, and also striking with the shoulder stock of the weapon.

Does Starfinder have rules for this sort of thing? I haven't found them if so. It would be easy enough to house-rule, but if there's official guidance on this topic, I'd prefer to follow the rules.

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There is no rule for doing this currently unless you count the improvised weapon rules. Those let you use an item as a club with penalties, it's not a great idea generally. I would definitely houserule something if you want it to actually be a viable strategy.


Starfinder Superscriber

I houserule that pistols and rifles can be used as clubs without the improvised weapon penalties. Just cause I've actually been hit with a rifle and a pistol (both by accident) and frankly, I don't think it deserves the penalty.


If I were running a session and someone wanted to pistol whip with a rifle, I'd let them but at -4 for using the weapon in a manner that wasn't directly intended.

If the opponent is prone though they would get +4 to melee hit them, so the bonus and minus cancel out. I'd say they deal 1d6+str if they hit. A one handed would be 1d4+str.

But no charging with a gun, that's just silly.

Sovereign Court

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Quote:
But no charging with a gun, that's just silly.

Um... It has been done countless times throughout history. I've done it myself in training.

From the Highland charge of Jacobite rising of 1689, the enfants perdus and forlorn hope of the Napoleonic Wars, to the tennōheika banzai charges of the Imperial Japanese Army during WWII... Rushing headlong at the enemy, shooting him en route, and then bashing him with a butt-stock or stabbing him with a bayonet is a time honored tactic.

A buttstroke isn't an ideal way to use a modern rifle, shooting people is. (I mean, that's why you put the bullets in it, right?) But smacking someone in the face with a 3.5 kg M4A1 is going to get noticed.


RPGs aren't realistic and weapons aren't meant to be all in one, more news at 11

Sovereign Court

That's why I use the Improvised Weapon rule to handle buttstrokes and pistol-whipping. But, yeah, you can totally charge with an improvised weapon.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Sigh... I still wish for bayonet rules. The closest we get is a maze core weapon. Gunblades, yay...


Batgirl_III wrote:
Quote:
But no charging with a gun, that's just silly.
Um... It has been done countless times throughout history. I've done it myself in training.

You missed my tone I was kidding. Like the Monty Python guy, "Stop that. It's too silly."


I must say "Rocket Propelled Grenades" are very much realistic.

I would say that if your trained to use the weapon by a military you are also trained to use it as a melee weapon. Because you will at some time run out of ammo and need a weapon right then without enough time to draw another. And bayenette should be a thing the book states that they could not add every mundane item to the book or else it would make the book too big. A common survival knife is 100cc and a Picatinny Rail Mount though not listed would fall under the claus of being a mundane common item. Which would cost you 5cc last paragraph in the Technological Items section. and it is up to your gm. And such an item could be used for other applications.

The CRB wrote:
Of course, there’s a vast array of technological devices available in most settlements—well beyond the number that could possibly be presented in any real-world book. In general, any minor piece of equipment with a real-world equivalent (alarm clock, camera, digital keys for Vehicles you own, timer, watch, and so on) can be purchased with GM approval, costs 5 credits and has light bulk.


If i remember correctly Armory is supposed to contain bayonets and other weapon accessories.


In the absence of new items and weapon rules, using a weapon in a way it wasn't actually intended (in game terms, not real-life terms) will incur a -4 penalty under the improvised weapons rule (core p. 169)


If you’re going to allow the existence of a bayonet in the first place, you can’t in good faith say that attacking with one is not using the weapon as intended. It would be reasonable to say that only some types of Long Arms have barrels or shapes that make them suitable for use with a bayonet.

Bayonets are essentially pointy sticks, the simplest weapon since the club, so proficiency with them should be Basic Melee. A bayonet on a Small Arm should be at least an Advanced Melee weapon, if not a Special Weapon.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Torbyne wrote:
Sigh... I still wish for bayonet rules. The closest we get is a maze core weapon. Gunblades, yay...

Maze core only works if the weapon components aren't analog, which rules out a lot of thematic options, such as underslung grenade launchers or scythe sniper rifles.

Exo-Guardians

I think one way you can look at it is a Bayonet can either be a spike, a triangular, or a blade. I think Starfinder would go for the blade design, in that case you can take a Combat Knife ad for extra credits (10% it's base cost anyone?) you can make the hilt and pommel suitable for use with a bayonet lug. Using the Bayonet requires proficiency in both base weapons and allows the bearer to make a melee attack with a ranged weapon as long as you attach it. Attaching a Bayonet is a move equivalent action

I'd say that any small or longarm can be built with a bayonet lug for 5% it's base cost. A bayonet lug may accept anything fitted to it such as a tripod, or similar device.


Honestly, I'm shocked that not one person has said 'Hey, can we get a Gears of War Chainsaw Rifle?' yet.


So far, everything I've seen in the rules that allows switching from two-handed ranged to melee is done through paying the price of a swift action to change grip or free a hand. I'd bet for it to be an internal guideline written somewhere in some general design document for Starfinder.

If you want a bayonet or anything in this spirit, I'd follow the same idea and ask for a swift action to change grip between ranged or melee. Keeps the rules consistent, doesn't change much, doesn't mess up with the tight game math.


Pantshandshake wrote:
Honestly, I'm shocked that not one person has said 'Hey, can we get a Gears of War Chainsaw Rifle?' yet.

Maze core a fang blade and x-gen rifle is what I did.

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