Unarmed Strikes + Natural Attacks


Rules Questions


If my 10th level fighter has improved unarmed strike, a bite and two claws, how many attacks can he make a round?

I know the natural attacks are secondary if I make iterative attacks aswell, but do I need to forgo any natural attacks to make the unarmed strikes?


You can't use a natural attack with a limb you also use for another attack, but that's not an issue here. Improved unarmed strike lets you use any body part to strike with.

If you use (for example) kicks to do your iterative attacks (one at full AB and one at -5) you can still do the claw/claw/bite (all at -5) in the same full attack. So, 5 attacks, more if you have two weapon fighting feats.


Forseti wrote:

You can't use a natural attack with a limb you also use for another attack, but that's not an issue here. Improved unarmed strike lets you use any body part to strike with.

If you use (for example) kicks to do your iterative attacks (one at full AB and one at -5) you can still do the claw/claw/bite (all at -5) in the same full attack. So, 5 attacks, more if you have two weapon fighting feats.

Really? Are you saying that a fighter can use TWF to unarmed strike with each leg in addition to making both claws and the bite?


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Morbid Eels wrote:
Forseti wrote:

You can't use a natural attack with a limb you also use for another attack, but that's not an issue here. Improved unarmed strike lets you use any body part to strike with.

If you use (for example) kicks to do your iterative attacks (one at full AB and one at -5) you can still do the claw/claw/bite (all at -5) in the same full attack. So, 5 attacks, more if you have two weapon fighting feats.

Really? Are you saying that a fighter can use TWF to unarmed strike with each leg in addition to making both claws and the bite?

Yes, that is correct. Although, technically they could TWF with a headbutt and a shoulder check. Or an elbow jab and a kick. Or two butt-cheek attacks. Unarmed strikes can be made with any part of the body, it's just generally easiest to talk about kicks and punches.


WatersLethe wrote:
Morbid Eels wrote:
Forseti wrote:

You can't use a natural attack with a limb you also use for another attack, but that's not an issue here. Improved unarmed strike lets you use any body part to strike with.

If you use (for example) kicks to do your iterative attacks (one at full AB and one at -5) you can still do the claw/claw/bite (all at -5) in the same full attack. So, 5 attacks, more if you have two weapon fighting feats.

Really? Are you saying that a fighter can use TWF to unarmed strike with each leg in addition to making both claws and the bite?
Yes, that is correct. Although, technically they could TWF with a headbutt and a shoulder check. Or an elbow jab and a kick. Or two butt-cheek attacks. Unarmed strikes can be made with any part of the body, it's just generally easiest to talk about kicks and punches.

Are you sure about that? I know Monks and Brawlers have specific text that says they can use legs/headbutts etc, but I thought that was just a Monk/Brawler thing ...? (I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm genuinely asking because I thought it worked differently)

(If I'm correct all you'd need is a 1-level dip in Monk or Brawler to get those bonuses)


MrCharisma wrote:


Are you sure about that? I know Monks and Brawlers have specific text that says they can use legs/headbutts etc, but I thought that was just a Monk/Brawler thing ...? (I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm genuinely asking because I thought it worked differently)

(If I'm correct all you'd need is a 1-level dip in Monk or Brawler to get those bonuses)

You'd need to dip for that, yes.


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The default rules for unarmed strike that everyone uses for sure says

"Striking for damage with punches, kicks, and head butts is much like attacking with a melee weapon, except for the following:"

Found in the combat section under melee attacks.

The monk sections says

"A monk’s attacks may be with fist, elbows, knees, and feet."

So either monk's can't headbutt or it's list isn't exhaustive (it's not). And since US has a list that is similar to the Monk's there's not much reason to think that that list is exhaustive either. Meaning the monk is just duplicating the rules and making a basic rules source in class so you don't need to look up the rules elsewhere.


Chess Pwn wrote:

The default rules for unarmed strike that everyone uses for sure says

"Striking for damage with punches, kicks, and head butts is much like attacking with a melee weapon, except for the following:"

Found in the combat section under melee attacks.

The monk sections says

"A monk’s attacks may be with fist, elbows, knees, and feet."

So either monk's can't headbutt or it's list isn't exhaustive (it's not). And since US has a list that is similar to the Monk's there's not much reason to think that that list is exhaustive either. Meaning the monk is just duplicating the rules and making a basic rules source in class so you don't need to look up the rules elsewhere.

^this^

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