Unchained Rogue - Rogue Talents


Advice


These will be used for the level slots of 2,4,6 and 8 unless I want to use a feat for 'extra rogue talent'.

I want to use 1, maybe 2 max rogue talents with asterisks which means they coincide when I make a successful sneak attack. Which of these 3 do you recommend? And should I take 1 or 2?

Slow Reactions *: Opponents dmgd by SA cant make AOO for 1 round

Bleeding Attack *: When hit SA 1 pt bleed dmg per SA Die (4d6 = 4) Can be stopped by DC 15 heal check or application of a healing. Bleed damage bypasses any DR

Hamstring Strike *: When landing a SA instead of SA dmg you knock target prone and is unable to use move actions during its next turn. Successful fort save (DC = 10 + ½ rogue level + rogue dex mod) negates this effect.

For the other rogue talents that don't coincide with a successful sneak attack, the ones below are the ones I found to be the best options for myself:

Offensive Defense: when deal SA dmg, gain +1 dodge AC for each SA die rolled for 1 round

Eerie Disappearance: (PR rogue 6) As full round action, if reaches location that offers her cover or concealment any creature observing must perception check vs rogues stealth check. On a fail observer loses track. At end she can attempt intimidate check to demoralize all foes within 60 ft that were aware of her at any point and are unaware of her current location. Compares intimidate check only once vs DC for each opponent

Surprise Attack: During surprise round opponents always considered flat footed to a rogue with this ability, even if they have already acted

Underhanded: +4 circumstance bonus sleight of hand checks to conceal weapon. SA during surprise round gets max SA dmg. May use this # of times = to Cha Mod (2)

Fast Getaway: After successful SA or sleight of hand check, rogue can spend move action to take withdraw action. Can move up to her speed max during this.

Which one of these rogue talents do you believe are the best to take? And if you believe I missed a rogue talent please let me know. I could take 'extra rogue talent' as a feat if it's worth it - unsure.


Bleed is too slow for normal combat use. It's perfect for guerrilla fighting but adventurers in PF rarely fight like that. Hamstring strike would be better at lower levels but it's an advanced talent - and you probably get double debilitation first. Slow reactions is reliably useful though fairly minor.

Offensive defense is for the original (not unchained) rogue only.

Eerie disappearance looks fun and useful.

Surprise attack may be useful, but there's a pretty good chance that either you'll win initiative (high dex) or that the enemy fails to spot you (high stealth) or that you're simply not in a surprise situation. If you often have a bunch of unstealthy people trying to sneak along with you it's better. Even then snap shot may be better.

Underhanded is pretty hard to use. You need to draw and use a concealed weapon during the surprise round. The action economy makes this difficult for most.

Fast getaway just doesn't seem that useful.

On other relevant talents - dampen presence is how to not be seen by enemies with blindsight/sense. You'll want it as a talent or feat eventually. Umbral gear is fun but possibly not that useful. If your GM uses area effects a lot then without a trace ay be useful.

Rogues usually use their talents to get more feats (e.g. combat trick, weapon training) rather than spending feats to get more talents.


Hamstring Strike * is listed as a rogue talent, not an advanced rogue talent. Unless it's been errated but I can't find that.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/rogue-talents/paizo-rog ue-talents/hamstring-strike-ex/

Once I get advanced rogue talents I plan on just retraining the hamstring strike into a feat or and advanced rogue talent.

After your comments, the rogue talents I'm thinking about taking are hamstring strike, eerie disappearance and surprise attack. And at level 8 I'm going to grab a feat.


Check in a hard copy of the core rulebook, or on archives of Nethys - hamstring strike is an advanced rogue talent. For that matter I just looked on d20pfsrd and I see hamstring strike listed under advanced talents. I don't know where you're getting that it's not an advanced talent.


Ninja trick: pressure points-1 str or Dex dmg every time you SA.

Ninja trick: wall climber- 20 ft climb speed

Unbalancing trick and underhanded trick are both useful.

Really depends on what kind of rogue you want to be.


If he were to acquire a ki pool of the ninja variety for the extra attack at full BaB, that could prove helpful.

Upon further research unchained rogues cannot get access to a ki pool.

Dark Archive

Bleeding Srike probably isn't worth taking unless you are running into a lot of Damage Resistant enemies. That said, I have a non-lethal rogue build that rolls double SA dice. So an extra 8-10 damage per round is pretty good. I didn't end up taking it however, as I do so much damage, that I 1 shot most enemies and 2-3 hits kills most bosses.

Offensive Defense is great, especially against the big bad.

My Rogue/Barbarian had Surprise Attack. It works ok, but I didn't get that much use out of it. I would choose the Rogue Scout Archetype and get Scouts Charge at level 4 and Skirmisher at level 8. Makes Surprise Attack somewhat worthless.

Eerie Disappearance looks pretty awesome. I haven't seen that before.

Hamstring Strike looks useful, but you are giving up guaranteed damage for something that will only work occasionally. Personally, I wouldn't give up my damage dealing for any of the * abilities. Especially when Debilitating Injury is at 4th level.


I feel I should have at least one rogue talent/advanced talent that has an * asterick.

Yeah offensive defense is awesome but apparently it's only for rogues not the unchained rogue (couldn't find the info for this but avr stated it so I'm sure he knows).


The unchained rogue gets a subset of the chained rogue's talents. Originally that was

Quote:

Rogue Talents: Assault leader, black market connections, canny observer, cunning trigger, deft palm, distracting attack*, fast getaway, firearm training, getaway artist, grit, iron guts, ninja trick, positioning attack, quick disguise, quick trapsmith, rope master, strong impression, strong stroke, survivalist, swift poison, underhanded, wall scramble.

Advanced Rogue Talents: Another day, confounding blades*, deadly cocktail, familiar, fast tumble, frugal trapsmith, getaway master, hide in plain sight, hunter’s surprise, knock-out blow, redirect attack, rumormonger, stealthy sniper, unwitting ally, weapon snatcher.

A bunch of sources since have added their new talents but you'll see offensive defense isn't there (nor is hamstring strike, I missed that before) and both existed at the time the unchained rogue came out. I think debilitating strike was meant to replace it - I can't remember if some developer said that or if it was just interpreted from the new feature and offensive defense's absence.

Weapon snatcher (ultimate combat) isn't on the list either Atalius. Edit: oops, it is. Didn't realise it was an advanced talent.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Does debilitating strike stack with the sneak attack talents (like bleed, slow, etc.)? I know the talents can’t stack with each other.

Scarab Sages

I think so.

Also, Debilitating Strike is essentially Offensive Defense built into the class. It has a slower progression, but you can get a similar effect by giving them a penalty to hit you.


May I suggest another * marked talent?
Emboldening Strike from Blood of Shadows - basically Offensive Defense at half value, but on Saving Throws (so, exactly what mister "worst base saves a PC class can have" needs). And, like Offensive Defense, it even stacks with itself!

Tusk the Half-Orc wrote:
Does debilitating strike stack with the sneak attack talents (like bleed, slow, etc.)? I know the talents can’t stack with each other.

Read the description: "At 4th level, whenever a rogue deals sneak attack damage to a foe, she can also debilitate the target of her attack, causing it to take a penalty for 1 round (this is in addition to any penalty caused by a rogue talent or other special ability)." Emphasis mine.


^ Derklord That's the one. You want to be sneak attacking. Get better defense from debilitating strike and emboldening strike. and if you can do it more than once a round, even better!

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