Deck of many things


Pathfinder RPG General Discussion


So my gm pulled oit the dexk of many things and i drew the 2 of diamonds twice
And the debate is wether or not the card stacks on one encounter or is it two seperate incounters but then that negates the secound card if there has to be a second encounter.

-*Defeat the next monster you meet to gain one level*- card text


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'd say that they would be consecutive encounters.

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Yeah, I'd go with one level each for the next two monsters.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The thing with artifacts like the deck of many things, is that they rarely, if ever, receive any sort of errata, or rules-clarification, unless they are printed in an adventure or AP first, and then put in something for more regular play, later. The deck of many things is an old, Legacy item, that has been around since very long time, relatively speaking. Thus, it’s. It likely to see clarification.

In this case, it is ultimately up to the GM, but, as so many of the various abilities offer nothing but annihilation, and the deck is supposed to be a relatively odds-to-even chance, between good and bad, it seems like it shouldn’t simply annihilate itself, or else it would be guilty of breaking its own rules and spirit (by heavily skewing in favor of bad).

Having it stack so that both effects work at once has the benefit of having the deck activate and get out; the frects are basically resolved and not lingering from that point.

Having it stack by two consecutive encounters makes it much more difficult on the deck-puller, but leaves the deck’s direct effects “in play” (and requiring them to be kept “in memory”) for longer. This creates heightened tension, which can be good, but also creates more memory-work and bookkeeping (as you have to stop and level up twice - a potential problem for the whole table).

Ultimately, it’s up to your group and your GM, but it feels like you got lucky and should be awarded for it - that’s what the deck is all about, after all: high risk of doom and high reward to go with it. Just... use your newfound powers to help your party shine, instead of hogging glory, okay?

;D


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I would say that the second one does nothing. Or rather, both will raise you to exactly the same point.

This might seem a bit unfair, but after the first one was drawn, you knew it could be drawn again, and you could have waited up to an hour before drawing again.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

"Comet: The character must single-handedly defeat the next hostile monster or monsters encountered, or the benefit is lost. If successful, the character gains enough XP to attain the next experience level."

The deck of many things is a very dangerous risk/reward gambling system. Each draw had the potential to literally destroy the PC. To shrug that gamble off and say "these two card overlap, not stack" is probably unfair, because that was a pair of draws that could have ended the character entirely.

As a DM, on consideration I'd probably take a break and do some encounter design. Depending on the PC's capabilities, I'd try to generate something fair and balanced, with roughly a 50/50 outcome. I'd probably take the two cards as inspiration that the threat should come from two monsters in a single encounter. Yes, that increases the danger, but the reward of gaining two levels is also pretty intense. (Note: I wouldn't grant wealth-by-level.) Just seems fair.

My mind is wandering... metagaming nastiness: the PC should have the party's wizard cast summon monster II (or druid do similar) if at all possible, and have them attack the PC. Welcome to cheese.

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I would not describe a summoned monster attacking you on behalf of an ally as "hostile."

Agreed on not negating the PC's gamble.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Weirdo wrote:

I would not describe a summoned monster attacking you on behalf of an ally as "hostile."

Agreed on not negating the PC's gamble.

Deck of Many Things

I feel it's worth noting:

Short Card Text wrote:
Defeat the next monster you meet to gain one level.

The "get an ally to summon the monster" is legit.

Longer Text wrote:
Comet: The character must single-handedly defeat the next hostile monster or monsters encountered, or the benefit is lost. If successful, the character gains enough XP to attain the next experience level.

A mere summons is... debatable.

... but if your ally were to summon, say, a daemon. It should be pretty hostile.

I mean, yeah, it's an evil act, but who wouldn't do a little evil for a friend... you know?

>:)

But it's okay: he can summon an angel next round to make up for it. Wait.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Normally, I won't let player draw the same card twice, once you draw a card, it's gone. In your case, I would save you either gain one level for the next and one more monster after that. Two levels in total. Or kill next two to gain two. Not very fair to kill one monster and gain two levels.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

For what it's worth, canon is that the cards are replaced, making it entirely possible to draw something twice. Not replacing cards could skew something that's very carefully balanced in a particular way.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
GM Rednal wrote:
For what it's worth, canon is that the cards are replaced, making it entirely possible to draw something twice. Not replacing cards could skew something that's very carefully balanced in a particular way.

"Carefully balanced" and "Deck of Many Things" are not two phrases that relate to one another.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

SHORT ANSWER: I would say that they stack.

LONG ANSWER:
We are talking about an artifact and the 2 of Diamonds says, “Defeat the next monster you meet to gain one level.” I do not see how the second card is rendered impotent by the first.

I curb-stomp a kobold.
First card effect goes off: I have defeated the next monster, so I gain one level.
I have defeated the next monster, so the second card effect also goes off and I gain one level.
That's a total of two levels.

If the card said, “Defeat the next monster you meet to advance to the next level,” then I would say that the second card has no effect. However, it doesn't, it says you gain one level and there's nothing preventing both cards from working, so you should gain two levels.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Mykull wrote:

SHORT ANSWER: I would say that they stack.

** spoiler omitted **

I have a slightly longer reply about how you stillmkight be correct, but for this short post, I’ll just mention you might want to look at my earlier post to see the actual wording: you seem to be reading the short version rather than the long version.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I said "in a particular way". XD More specifically, "players are meant to have certain odds of good/bad/neutral effects". Many individual effects are hilariously inappropriate, of course - that's the charm of the item - but the odds of effects are actually very important given how a bad draw can screw you over. Anything that makes the odds worse for the player (or better, for that matter) is actually rather significant.

For example, the Harrow Deck of Many Things has 44% odds of a positive effect, 30% odds of a negative effect, and 26% odds of a neutral effect. This is very much on purpose, since that rate gives 50% odds of a negative effect for drawing two cards. ^^


Comet: The character must single-handedly defeat the next hostile monster or monsters encountered, or the benefit is lost. If successful, the character gains enough XP to attain the next experience level.

The long version supports the second card being wasted; such is the capriciousness of The Deck of Many Things.

But the short description (which is also RAW) indicates that one gains two levels.

This, it's up to your DM to decide and either way, s/he's within the rules.


This is a definition of 'charm' with which I am utterly unfamiliar. (Can you guess that I really hate this thing and won't touch it with an industry-standard ten foot adventuring pole?)


The DoMT is my absolute favorite magic item & has been since 1st edition. I love springing it on PC's, 'cuz most of them can't resist drawing from the deck...at least once.

Favorite DoMT story: one of the 3.5 books (DMG II maybe) introduced a variant DoMT, where one of the cards was a forced reincarnation. My wife had spent weeks building the "perfect Elf character", she even found a website to translate her character background into the elven language.
Then she drew the card and was transformed into a Dwarf...to this day she still 1) hates dwarves and 2) refuses to come within 30' of a DoMT.

As for the OP's situation, I'd say they stack and he gets 2 levels from the next encounter. However, I tend to play on the munchkin side of things, so take my advice with a grain of salt.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Childeric, The Shatterer wrote:

Favorite DoMT story: one of the 3.5 books (DMG II maybe) introduced a variant DoMT, where one of the cards was a forced reincarnation. My wife had spent weeks building the "perfect Elf character", she even found a website to translate her character background into the elven language.

Then she drew the card and was transformed into a Dwarf...to this day she still 1) hates dwarves and 2) refuses to come within 30' of a DoMT.

I don't understand how this isn't a story about your ex-wife.


Because she had only herself to blame and realized and accepted it?


From the cheese perspective, I don't know about summon monster, but planar binding, with the DoMT affected character inside the summoning trap (like a sacrifice but unbound), would work pretty well.


Personally I'd have them run into 2 fairly nasty monsters and combat them both single-handedly to earn their levels (simultaneously if that isn't obvious). And they would learn the hard way not to try and cheat or go all cheesy where an artifact is involved by summoning a kobold or something else they expect to "curb stomp" for easy gain. Just how it rebounds and slaps them silly would depend on just how cheesy they got.


I would go with two levels from one monster. This was a huge risk. The player got lucky and rewarded for taking that risk. Twice. I mean when you are a DM and choose to put the deck on the table it can’t only be for your own fun. You have to accept the RNG that comes with it. Otherwise it is really unfair for the player.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder RPG / General Discussion / Deck of many things All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.