The Situation


Advice


The mother of all situations. I am a level 11 Witch. My party has a level 11 optimized Half-Orc Invulnerable Rager Barbarian. If he were to be dominated (God forbid) is this something I would die to? His saves are sky high (superstition, witch hunter etc). His Will save is about +17 (seems built to slay casters). Most of my spells involve a saving throw. How would you deal with this threat assuming no other allies are nearby.


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Carry a Scroll of Teleport.


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Keep Quickened Teleport in reserve in case you have to escape.

EDIT: My mistake. You're not high enough level to use that. But like Omnius said - Scroll of Teleport at the ready.


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Fly Hex. Get out of his range then teleport.


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Use protection spells and a dispel magic to keep him safe... and you safe.


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There is no way to stop him? Only run for dear life?

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Don't run. You'll die tired.

Shadow Lodge

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I'm assuming your barbarian has invested in all the usual anti-dominate/charm magic items.

Pre-emptively, if you think you're going to run into someone who will cast dominate person, you can pre-emptively cast dominate person on your barbarian with the command to "act as you normally would"--if he should somehow fail his dominate save against an enemy caster, then...

Quote:

Multiple Mental Control Effects

Sometimes magical effects that establish mental control render each other irrelevant, such as spells that remove the subject’s ability to act. Mental controls that don’t remove the recipient’s ability to act usually do not interfere with each other. If a creature is under the mental control of two or more creatures, it tends to obey each to the best of its ability, and to the extent of the control each effect allows. If the controlled creature receives conflicting orders simultaneously, the competing controllers must make opposed Charisma checks to determine which one the creature obeys.

As Witch, I'm guessing your CHA isn't that great.

The other option is using Dispel Magic on the dominate person (which is a caster level check, so the barbarian's saves don't factor in)--but first and foremost, you want to put distance between you and a raging, pouncing barbarian and cast dispel from range...because if you fail that check and your his target, bye bye.


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Sammy T wrote:

I'm assuming your barbarian has invested in all the usual anti-dominate/charm magic items.

Pre-emptively, if you think you're going to run into someone who will cast dominate person, you can pre-emptively cast dominate person on your barbarian with the command to "act as you normally would"--if he should somehow fail his dominate save against an enemy caster, then...

Quote:

Multiple Mental Control Effects

Sometimes magical effects that establish mental control render each other irrelevant, such as spells that remove the subject’s ability to act. Mental controls that don’t remove the recipient’s ability to act usually do not interfere with each other. If a creature is under the mental control of two or more creatures, it tends to obey each to the best of its ability, and to the extent of the control each effect allows. If the controlled creature receives conflicting orders simultaneously, the competing controllers must make opposed Charisma checks to determine which one the creature obeys.

As Witch, I'm guessing your CHA isn't that great.

The other option is using Dispel Magic on the dominate person (which is a caster level check, so the barbarian's saves don't factor in)--but first and foremost, you want to put distance between you and a raging, pouncing barbarian and cast dispel from range...because if you fail that check and your his target, bye bye.

I thought you were dead my friend. The legend lives on....


I thought the Witch was made for 1v1's. I thought being a tier 1 class would enable me to dispose of this brute. I thought a Persistent Bestow Curse (amnesia) or Quickened Ill Oman (a lot of rerolls at level 11) followed up with a Slumber or something would be able to stop this unstoppable force. I see I was mistaken (smh).

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Atalius wrote:
I thought the Witch was made for 1v1's. I thought being a tier 1 class would enable me to dispose of this brute. I thought a Persistent Bestow Curse (amnesia) or Quickened Ill Oman followed up with a Slumber or something would be able to stop this unstoppable force. I see I was mistaken (smh).

You think too much, focus too much on rules and too little on ensuring that the other party members will help you out in case the Barbarian gets dominated. Which is no Quickened Optimized Wannabe God Tier Ability will ever be helpful with.


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You are a Witch asking to face off versus a Barbarian WITHOUT killing the Barbarian. Your options are to run out of range so you don't get killed in one full turn and then attempt to help your ally or completely leave.

Tier 1 classes are also overhyped and it doesn't always work in play. A Dominated Barbarian is not a normal enemy. He is an enemy that is MUCH tougher than because you DO NOT WANT TO KILL HIM. That is a challenge in a game designed around killing enemies.

Silver Crusade

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Dimension Door.


SorrySleeping wrote:

You are a Witch asking to face off versus a Barbarian WITHOUT killing the Barbarian. Your options are to run out of range so you don't get killed in one full turn and then attempt to help your ally or completely leave.

Tier 1 classes are also overhyped and it doesn't always work in play. A Dominated Barbarian is not a normal enemy. He is an enemy that is MUCH tougher than because you DO NOT WANT TO KILL HIM. That is a challenge in a game designed around killing enemies.

Ahh gotcha, ya hard to control him without harming. IF I did want to kill him am I capable (just curious)?


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The barbarian probably needs a magic item to fly. Dispel that item then fly overhead debuffing until even a superstitious barbarian fails the saves. You may need more than one dispel magic.


avr wrote:
The barbarian probably needs a magic item to fly. Dispel that item then fly overhead debuffing until even a superstitious barbarian fails the saves. You may need more than one dispel magic.

Woohoo! Awesome, simple and effective I like it.


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The implied goal is to not only stop the barbarian should they turn but also do so in a way that doesn't murder them. Here's a few ideas.

Dust Form turns you incorporeal for awhile giving you time to deal with the mind control or just set up other spells.

Look for Spell's that still do things even when passed. Any debuff is good if it stops them or helps your next act.

It's 1v1. Why? Summon something if you can to keep the barbarian busy(hopefully after you've stalled them)

So the Barbarian has stupid saves, who cares. Don't cast on him but around. Fog spells, environmental effects, heck animate his sword or otherwise remove it.

Mess with the wording. I'm unsure how high level spell's work and this is varies table to table but it could work. If the order is "Attack the human witch" Well don't be human at that moment. Use a spell or hex to change forms.


Say this mindless barbarian upset me. Am i capable of killing him? Muhahaha


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Hit him with waves of fatigue before he rages, no save fatigue means he cannot rage and none of his superstituion bonuses to saves apply.

Keep a rimed frigid touch spell loaded into a spite spell. Buy a 3k lesser rod of rime. The first time he hits you he becomes staggered for 1 round and entangled for 2, no save.

Keep another loaded into a spell storing haramaki.

These should give you time for greater invisibility. Martials have very few ways to obtain see invisibility. Then fly away and pelt him from range, dispelling any fly effect he has.

If you are just looking to kill him stab him in his sleep.


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Hide your body somewhere, cast swarm skin and eat him to death as an army ant swarm. Do not do this if he has a swarmbane clasp.


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[Only reads thread title, sees it’s something to do with a barbarian:] Jersey Shore adaptations belong in the Homebrew forum, not Advice.


andreww wrote:

Hit him with waves of fatigue before he rages, no save fatigue means he cannot rage and none of his superstituion bonuses to saves apply.

Keep a rimed frigid touch spell loaded into a spite spell. Buy a 3k lesser rod of rime. The first time he hits you he becomes staggered for 1 round and entangled for 2, no save.

Keep another loaded into a spell storing haramaki.

These should give you time for greater invisibility. Martials have very few ways to obtain see invisibility. Then fly away and pelt him from range, dispelling any fly effect he has.

If you are just looking to kill him stab him in his sleep.

Unfortunately I don't have access to greater invis as a witch but most of the other stuff is doable


doesn't superstition still work even if not raging? The waves of fatigue would only stop the rage wouldn't it?


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I mean, I first kind of want to know how this guy would get Dominated with a +17 Will. Second of all, flying, I guess? Protection from Evil? Ill Omen+Evil Eye+Waves of Fatigue+Slumber?

I'd almost be worried about you getting dominated over the barbarian. A +17 is nothing to sneeze at. How are your saves?


Wall of force, dimension door, and GTFO?


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"How" is a simple question. One bad roll is all it takes.


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Omnius wrote:
"How" is a simple question. One bad roll is all it takes.

The same applies to Casters, yet oddly I rarely see threads asking "what if the Wizard gets dominated?" Normally, that's because martials are rocking a Will save in the +5-10 range, not +17, which is conceivably higher than the witch themselves.


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I'd advise staying away from voluntary PVP unless all involved players and the GM are on board. It's seldom fun times to start the game of "who can murder whom in their sleep."

Atalius wrote:
doesn't superstition still work even if not raging? The waves of fatigue would only stop the rage wouldn't it?

Superstition, like all rage powers, only benefits the Barbarian during rage.

Dαedαlus wrote:
Omnius wrote:
"How" is a simple question. One bad roll is all it takes.
The same applies to Casters, yet oddly I rarely see threads asking "what if the Wizard gets dominated?" Normally, that's because martials are rocking a Will save in the +5-10 range, not +17, which is conceivably higher than the witch themselves.

Very likely higher than that of the caster (while raging), unless they're building for saves.


Suppress Charms & Compulsions, which he should elect to auto-fail his save against. Then the Barbarian kills the opponents since he's back on your side and has 11 rounds of the suppression since you have 11 levels. Then you flee by the best means available (Dimension Door/Tele/whatever) (or hope your party mates are finally around).


Ya his saving throw is higher than mine. I have a +12. Ya one bad save has got him paralyzed before, dominated could occur. But thanks to you guys I now know I can contain him. Thanks.


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Flight Hex and ray spells are your friends.

Ray of Exhaustion to stop that nasty raging. Lead with a Quickened Ill Omen to burn his sunder for the round.

Enervation debuffing his attacks and defenses simultaneously.

Wracking Ray if you're a nefarious sort and cast evil spells.


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So this went from a "help me not die from a mind controlled companion" to a "help me murder a PC that may or may not upset me" thread.

Cool. Coolcoolcool.

Don't think I have any advice other than maybe find a new group.


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lol we are just having a good time here Cavall

Silver Crusade

Fly and Invisibility and GTFO.


Invisibility is not on the Witch's spell list, unfortunately I didn't select the Trickery domain. I would have to UMD it.

I prefer the method of killing the barbarian and cackling over his corpse.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

Let the rest of the party deal with him while you dispatch the one who Dominated him.


I'm a big fan of obscuring mist and darkness type spells. Anything that allows you to hide/conceal yourself to avoid AO and give you a miss chance.


he is a half-orc with dark vision. Even if I were to lower the darkness level to dim-light and then cast Shadowmind he would make the save, his Will save is too high.

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