Need some help to build investigator whole


Advice

Grand Lodge

Hello, pathfinders!
I revised my choice of first PFS character (my halfling noble swashbuckler meet a lot of critics) and now think about half-elf Investigator (Empiricist).
Definatly sure about stats, traits and skills, but hard to chose feats and talants by level. And some question about gear and extract.

Now (2 levl) I have:
Stats: Str 16, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 9, Cha 7.

Race traits: take dual minded to will
Traits: Student of Philosophy and Resilent.

Skills: craft (alchemy) 2, diplomacy 2, perception 2, spellcraft 2, UMD 2. This skills I wanna raise every level. Also take: sense motive 2, knowledge (local) 2 (seems good to raise this every level too). And: disable device 1, knowledge (arcana, nature, religion) 1. I consider take later Int headband (bluff)

Talent and feats: wanna be good enought in and out combat, so...
Talent: Expanded Inspiration, Mutagen, Quick Study, Combat Inspiration and, may be, Sickening Offensive? I'm not sure in the order of the first three.
Feats: totaly sure only about one: Power attack. First level... Extra inspiration or medium armor? Third... power attack or extra talent? Really don't now and wanna advice here.

In extract I have 7, so... adhesive spittle, crafter's fortune, Enlarge, Expeditios retreat, height awareness, Long arm and monkey fish.

And last part: equipment. I have 1559 gp and 6 PP.
2 PP go to CLW wand.
Other stuff... masterwork longspear (to enchant it later and use long long time), masterwork lockpick, alchemy craft kit, may be portable lab. Armor - if medium armor dont worth, i think to buy mithral chinshirt. But if consider to take medium armor... Think i need to safe money for mithral breastplate?

Read investigators guides (both: "Being Sherlock Holmes:
A Gentleman’s Guide to the Investigator" and "N. Jolly’s guide-addendum") a lot of time. For home game I know what to choose, but for PFS I don't.

Thanks for your help, and forgive me for my language - I'm not wery good in writing english


Your points are way to high. Pfs is 20 pts. If you really want a swashbuckler why not do both? I did a level dip as a inspired swashbuckler and then empericist from there. I went 13 str (carry and power attack at 3) dex 18, con 12, int 15 wis 12 and cha7

Silver Crusade

You want Combat Reflexes as your first feat. In addition to the extra AoOs, you can make them while flat-footed.


I'd trade the spittle extract for comprehend languages. Buy a sling, with cold iron bullets. A silver mace doesn't hurt either, imo. +1 to combat reflexes for the first feat. And looks like int is too high, were you thinking dual talent human instead of half-elf at some point?

Grand Lodge

Cult of Vorg wrote:
I'd trade the spittle extract for comprehend languages. Buy a sling, with cold iron bullets. A silver mace doesn't hurt either, imo. +1 to combat reflexes for the first feat. And looks like int is too high, were you thinking dual talent human instead of half-elf at some point?

Spittle work good for my home game chemist... but here you may be right. Investigator has less int then chemist, so dc is weaker... really make sense.

Silver light mace is really good idea. Sling with cold iron... I think about cold iron Cestus. But have some ranged option is good. Yes.

Combat reflexes at first level... at this point I better think combo this whis light armor and dex mutagen? Or medium armor later still good thing?

As I say I wanna character, who’s good in and out of combat, and since out of combat int is main stat for anything - I think 16 is minimum, not overkill.
Dual talent human... it gives + 2 str, what’s good in combat. Or raise int to 18. Looks sweet, but I lose +2 to perceptions (passable, especially if take 18 int), but I also lose +2 will safe - and this really hearts. Only may be go to 17, 14, 14, 17, 10 and 7? This can work good enough in long therms. But in this case I also lose paragon surge spell and really good half elf fcb. And this drawback can’t overcome by time.

Grand Lodge

ekibus wrote:
Your points are way to high. Pfs is 20 pts. If you really want a swashbuckler why not do both? I did a level dip as a inspired swashbuckler and then empericist from there. I went 13 str (carry and power attack at 3) dex 18, con 12, int 15 wis 12 and cha7

Yep, of course I read about swashigator a lot. Close to this stat arrangement (but int 16 wis 9). In swashigator themselfs I scary of 12 con - before I start this level 2 rebuild I try play ranged inquisitor and have -11 hp one times.

Another point against swashigator - I feel like it broke normal investigator feat chain. But ok, with combat reflex and fencing grace at 1 and 3 level later can easy take extra talent. Buuut! It suddenly start to looks feet hungry.

Upd: remember! Whis this I also need to think about change resilience trait to magical knack. May be think not really hard, but...


Don't know why I thought it was higher than 20 point attribute spread, it looks fine when I look at it now. Sorry.

14 dex is fine for combat reflexes, FF AoO's and a couple of extra is good, it's unlikely you'd use more unless you were Swashbuckler. Even with 12dex (when enlarged) CR is still worth it imo.

Instead of medium armor proficiency feat, there's always armor expert trait and a mithril breastplate.

I'd see how he plays through some scenarios before deciding your 3rd level feat. Order of discoveries should be mutagen, quick study, then anything else.


Yay finally by the computer. So there are two types of investigator the str and the dex both have merits. I mention the dex swash only because that was your original flavor. Downside to str imo is mutagen hits your int. That hurts your out of combat skills as well as studied duration.

Things to keep in mind: You do not have caster levels and magical items (wands) need to be activated by umd. Personally I went half elf for the fcb and I put skill focus on umd...sounds silly but I aim to use the wand without making checks at level 6 I'm almost there.

The dip for dex gives you martial weapons, even though your focus rapier, parry and riposte is the big thing that scales so always good (sadly it is only once per round so combat reflexes is useless) I'm not 100% on the ruling but a extract says it takes a standard action so reduce/enlarge person might only be a standard action something to keep in mind either way. Alls my level 2 extracts are alchemical allocation and I've been buying potions, already took extend potion plan to take enhance potion next level so 4x a day I can use a potion without consuming it doubling the duration and using my level for caster... have a potion of darkvision, heroism, barkskin already plan to get fly asap...basically you now can "cast" any buff spell

Trying to do all this right before work and running late. Either way they are both good ways..dex is mainly defense at a slight cost to offense..at level 6 buffed I'm hitting at +14 hit and 1d6+11+2 precise with about a ac of 26..Unlike reach I'm pretty well guaranteed someone will try to hit me and I can parry/riposte. I took a belt of con and a headband of int asap. Skills are pretty nice 12+1d6+1 on all knowledge, +18 perception, +18 umd.

Grand Lodge

Cult of Vorg wrote:

Don't know why I thought it was higher than 20 point attribute spread, it looks fine when I look at it now. Sorry.

14 dex is fine for combat reflexes, FF AoO's and a couple of extra is good, it's unlikely you'd use more unless you were Swashbuckler. Even with 12dex (when enlarged) CR is still worth it imo.

Instead of medium armor proficiency feat, there's always armor expert trait and a mithril breastplate.

I'd see how he plays through some scenarios before deciding your 3rd level feat. Order of discoveries should be mutagen, quick study, then anything else.

FF AoO - here, i think, expirence from home AP play is good enought? At 1st part of Runelords and 1 and half of 2nd part of Kingmaker we meet this so little...

Armor expert - good point. Dont sure about full utilyse Max dex from mithral, but need to think about.

UPD: mutagen before quick study - yep, deffinatly. But must I do focus in combat early? Expanded Inspiration for social skills and perseption strongly recomended to be only third?

Grand Lodge

ekibus wrote:

Yay finally by the computer. So there are two types of investigator the str and the dex both have merits. I mention the dex swash only because that was your original flavor. Downside to str imo is mutagen hits your int. That hurts your out of combat skills as well as studied duration.

Things to keep in mind: You do not have caster levels and magical items (wands) need to be activated by umd. Personally I went half elf for the fcb and I put skill focus on umd...sounds silly but I aim to use the wand without making checks at level 6 I'm almost there.

The dip for dex gives you martial weapons, even though your focus rapier, parry and riposte is the big thing that scales so always good (sadly it is only once per round so combat reflexes is useless) I'm not 100% on the ruling but a extract says it takes a standard action so reduce/enlarge person might only be a standard action something to keep in mind either way. Alls my level 2 extracts are alchemical allocation and I've been buying potions, already took extend potion plan to take enhance potion next level so 4x a day I can use a potion without consuming it doubling the duration and using my level for caster... have a potion of darkvision, heroism, barkskin already plan to get fly asap...basically you now can "cast" any buff spell

Trying to do all this right before work and running late. Either way they are both good ways..dex is mainly defense at a slight cost to offense..at level 6 buffed I'm hitting at +14 hit and 1d6+11+2 precise with about a ac of 26..Unlike reach I'm pretty well guaranteed someone will try to hit me and I can parry/riposte. I took a belt of con and a headband of int asap. Skills are pretty nice 12+1d6+1 on all knowledge, +18 perception, +18 umd.

Choise between str and dex investigator is really hard)

1. Str mutagen hits int, yes. But last 10m per level. So I see there two part: in combat I lose 1 point in UMD and Perseption (and 1 round of studied combat, yes). Out of combat I lose more, but I meet situation where social part came right after combat is very rare. Even in my 3 PFS game. May be I just ahve a luck in selection of scenario?
2. Hight umd is important, sure. But skill focus... I really like half-elf Iron-Will more for this low will dependent class
3. Combat reflex for swash is definatly not usesless - it's life important. Yes, riposte only ones per round, but parry - parry limited only by your AoO and panache.
4. And about riposte it's take your next round swift action. Studied combat fells good with it?
5. Remember another thing - Power attack hit your parry. It work good too, or 50\50?


Yeah maybe it is the level, a lot of games require you to move from point a to b. Since even disable device is now int based for the class not sure.
Yeah I wanted the ability to use wands reliably. My justification is the half elf gets +2 vs enchant and the class go es you +2 vs illusions. So it isn't as huge as normal imo.
Every time you parry you lose a point plus reflexes... that could burn you out in a round. I'd prefer a high ac :) I normally start with studied for 4 round.
At level 6 I'm +14 after the power attack I think even a fighter would be impressed :)

Grand Lodge

ekibus wrote:

Yeah maybe it is the level, a lot of games require you to move from point a to b. Since even disable device is now int based for the class not sure.

Yeah I wanted the ability to use wands reliably. My justification is the half elf gets +2 vs enchant and the class go es you +2 vs illusions. So it isn't as huge as normal imo.
Every time you parry you lose a point plus reflexes... that could burn you out in a round. I'd prefer a high ac :) I normally start with studied for 4 round.
At level 6 I'm +14 after the power attack I think even a fighter would be impressed :)

Wand have stable DC 20, as I remember. At 5 level not hard to have 11-12. This + inspiration seeems good enought) but hey, good remember about safe bonus! Don’t look in race and class together. Now totally sure about 9 Wis for me)

+14 after pa. Really good point here) swash themselfs seems to have at level 6 13-15 without pa.

Silver Crusade

When you use a reach weapon, your AC doesn't need to be quite as high. You can position yourself to make it difficult and/or unattractive to flank you.

Grand Lodge

ekibus wrote:


I can use a potion without consuming it doubling the duration and using my level for caster...

Only now understand this. How you can have your caster level for drinking potion?

Grand Lodge

PCScipio wrote:
When you use a reach weapon, your AC doesn't need to be quite as high. You can position yourself to make it difficult and/or unattractive to flank you.

So 14 dex, light armor and buff is enough?

Silver Crusade

Innario wrote:
So 14 dex, light armor and buff is enough?

IMHO, yes. With a mithril chain shirt, barkskin (+2 enhancement to natural armor) and a Str mutagen (+2 alchemical to natural armor), you're at AC 20 already.


Use enhance potion while using alchemical allocation. I wouldn't trust using or having inspiration for Umd if you roll a 1 and can't make the dc then you can't use that wand for the rest of the day. If you are in a pinch that might not be a great thing.

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