Psychic Tiny Kitsune Fox advised needed


Advice

Lantern Lodge

Never played a psychic or a psychic class before and decided to give a Kitsune Psychic a try.

However, I'm really unfamiliar with the Psychic class and NOT ONE plays one in my local PFS group. Most of the fellow players dismiss it as too weak a class for PFS play. (They tend to favor high damage, skills or other min-max builds.)

So since I am making a new PFS Kitsune character, I thought to give it a shot.
And psychic spells can be cast while in a Tiny Fox form.

Please let me know if there is anyway to improve this build.
I am going for more of a support buffer build, but I'm not sure how to build the character past lv 1.

Lv 1 Kitsune Psychic (Self-Perfection)
Keen Kitsune - +2 to Dex and Int, instead of Dex and Cha
Self-Perfection Psychic Discipline - Wis to AC

Ability score
STR: 8 DEX: 14 CON: 12 INT: 18 WIS: 16 CHA: 7

(Tiny Fox form)
STR: 6 DEX: 18 CON: 12 INT: 18 WIS: 16 CHA: 7

Traits:
1)Clever Wordplay - Int for 1 Cha skill (Diplomacy) or Student of Philosophy
2) Pragmatic Activator - Int for UMD

Defence
AC: 15 (+2 Dex, +3 Wis) - (19 w/ Mage Armor, 23 Mage Armor + Shield)
AC (Tiny Fox): 20 (+4 Dex, +3 Wis, +1 Natural Armor, +2 Size)
CMD: 14 (-1 Str, +2 Dex, +3 Wis)
CMD (Tiny Fox): 13 (-2 Str, +4 Dex, +3 Wis -2 Size)

Feats: Fox Shape

Self-Perfection Bonus Spells: expeditious retreat (1st), bear's endurance (4th), haste (6th), freedom of movement (8th), echolocation (10th), transformation (12th), ethereal jaunt (14th), iron body (16th), akashic form (18th).

Spells in mind:
1) Mage Armor, Color Spray, Sleep, Magic Missile, Mind Thrust, Enlarge Person
2) Blindness/Deafness, Blur, Darkvision, Invisibility, Mirror Image, Placebo Effect, Resist Energy, See Invisibility,
3) Fly, Dispel Magic, Heroism, Resist Energy, Communal, Reflexive Barrier


Psychics are the strongest of the Occult classes so ability shouldn't be an issue. One annoying thing is how sucky the Kitsune favored class bonus is for Psychics and Mesmerists, it really should have been the same as what they have for the Sorcerer but paizo are doing the opposite of a power creep, power decay.

If you are playing a Kitsune and a spellcasting class that specializes in mind effects then go for that.

Spell focus enchantment along with the ability Psychics get to spend points to enhance the DC's of mind control spells. You can also pick up a power that lets enhantment spells work on undead.

Color spray is a mind effect so although spell focus enchantment won't work for it the Psychic class ability to boost mind effecting DC's will which will help until it starts to become useless but by then you will have better options.

Get aversion, normally a 3rd level spell but 2nd for Psychics. Your DC will be higher as it's enchantment and you can say they are averse to their armor or clothing so it shuts them down on a failed save and weakens them even if they make it.

Also try and make room for silence, it doesn't affect Psychics so you can cast it on your self.

Suggestion is also a good choice, 2nd level for psychics instead of 3rd.

If you need to you can use the physical push ability of self-perfection to gain a bonus to initiative.


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There's always a psychic duel specialist if you really want to annoy people who think the class is underpowered...


Burst of adrenaline isn't bad. It's a +4 to your fort or reflex save, and combined with the self-perfection ability you get +7 to any physical skill check. Not a spell for the earliest levels but once you can throw 1st level spell slots away it's one to get.

The psychic gets a lot of save or suck spells on their spell list, some of them at reduced levels compared to others. They're less good at buffs but besides the ones you noted consider contagious zeal, contingent action and vanish or invisibility.

As far as feats go, if you want to get tricky with pretending you're just a familiar or something there's stylized spell. Otherwise improved initiative is important for a buffer, persistent spell for debuffs, toughness for not getting squished, extra amplification for more psychic class tricks.

Sideromancer, AoN thinks that's not PFS-legal.


The Fox Shape feat requires a Charisma of 13 and a BAB of +3.


Gisher wrote:
The Fox Shape feat requires a Charisma of 13 and a BAB of +3.

Unless you take the "Superior Shapeshifter" Alternate Racial Trait, which gives it to you for free at level 1.


CupcakeNautilus wrote:
Gisher wrote:
The Fox Shape feat requires a Charisma of 13 and a BAB of +3.
Unless you take the "Superior Shapeshifter" Alternate Racial Trait, which gives it to you for free at level 1.

The OP stated that this was for a PFS character, and Superior Shapeshifter isn't PFS legal.

Lantern Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Gisher wrote:
CupcakeNautilus wrote:
Gisher wrote:
The Fox Shape feat requires a Charisma of 13 and a BAB of +3.
Unless you take the "Superior Shapeshifter" Alternate Racial Trait, which gives it to you for free at level 1.
The OP stated that this was for a PFS character, and Superior Shapeshifter isn't PFS legal.

Thanks for pointing that out. I will pick up the fox shape feat, later down the line. And maybe select a Cha based discipline instead.

So any advice on feats and discipline?

Lantern Lodge

NoTongue wrote:

Psychics are the strongest of the Occult classes so ability shouldn't be an issue. One annoying thing is how sucky the Kitsune favored class bonus is for Psychics and Mesmerists, it really should have been the same as what they have for the Sorcerer but paizo are doing the opposite of a power creep, power decay.

If you are playing a Kitsune and a spellcasting class that specializes in mind effects then go for that.

Spell focus enchantment along with the ability Psychics get to spend points to enhance the DC's of mind control spells. You can also pick up a power that lets enhantment spells work on undead.

Color spray is a mind effect so although spell focus enchantment won't work for it the Psychic class ability to boost mind effecting DC's will which will help until it starts to become useless but by then you will have better options.

Get aversion, normally a 3rd level spell but 2nd for Psychics. Your DC will be higher as it's enchantment and you can say they are averse to their armor or clothing so it shuts them down on a failed save and weakens them even if they make it.

Also try and make room for silence, it doesn't affect Psychics so you can cast it on your self.

Suggestion is also a good choice, 2nd level for psychics instead of 3rd.

If you need to you can use the physical push ability of self-perfection to gain a bonus to initiative.

avr wrote:

Burst of adrenaline isn't bad. It's a +4 to your fort or reflex save, and combined with the self-perfection ability you get +7 to any physical skill check. Not a spell for the earliest levels but once you can throw 1st level spell slots away it's one to get.

The psychic gets a lot of save or suck spells on their spell list, some of them at reduced levels compared to others. They're less good at buffs but besides the ones you noted consider contagious zeal, contingent action and vanish or invisibility.

As far as feats go, if you want to get tricky with pretending you're just a familiar or something there's stylized spell. Otherwise improved initiative is important for a buffer, persistent spell for debuffs, toughness for not getting squished, extra amplification for more psychic class tricks.

Sideromancer, AoN thinks that's not PFS-legal.

Thanks for all the advice. Going to add those spells to my selection list.

What feats works for a Psychic? I'm not sure if I should just spec it like a wizard or sorcerer. Is there any psychic specific feats I should be aware of?


I wouldn't recommend most psychic-specific feats, with the exception of extra amplification. A psychic is close enough to a sorcerer that you'd use the same feats otherwise.

Lantern Lodge

@Avr Thanks.

Update, I will likely be swapping Self-Perfection (which I do really like) for Rebirth instead. As Rebirth is Charisma base.

This would lower my defences, but it would give me more options as I can dip into other classes for spells.


Secane wrote:
Gisher wrote:
CupcakeNautilus wrote:
Gisher wrote:
The Fox Shape feat requires a Charisma of 13 and a BAB of +3.
Unless you take the "Superior Shapeshifter" Alternate Racial Trait, which gives it to you for free at level 1.
The OP stated that this was for a PFS character, and Superior Shapeshifter isn't PFS legal.

Thanks for pointing that out. I will pick up the fox shape feat, later down the line. And maybe select a Cha based discipline instead.

So any advice on feats and discipline?

I've never tried playing a Psychic, but it seems to me that they could be decent at summoning. You get the Summon Monster spells at the same levels as a Sorcerer. The Conjured Armor Phrenic Amplification can boost their AC, and you'd want the usual Spell Focus (conjuration) -> Augment Summoning chain to boost STR and CON. Note that the Summon Monster spells do require a Focus Component which psychic casters aren't exempt from needing, so casting them in fox form could be problematic. (I have a Psychic Detective with Superior Shapeshifter that I was building that way until I realized this would be an issue.)

Lantern Lodge

Gisher wrote:
Secane wrote:
Gisher wrote:
CupcakeNautilus wrote:
Gisher wrote:
The Fox Shape feat requires a Charisma of 13 and a BAB of +3.
Unless you take the "Superior Shapeshifter" Alternate Racial Trait, which gives it to you for free at level 1.
The OP stated that this was for a PFS character, and Superior Shapeshifter isn't PFS legal.

Thanks for pointing that out. I will pick up the fox shape feat, later down the line. And maybe select a Cha based discipline instead.

So any advice on feats and discipline?

I've never tried playing a Psychic, but it seems to me that they could be decent at summoning. You get the Summon Monster spells at the same levels as a Sorcerer. The Conjured Armor Phrenic Amplification can boost their AC, and you'd want the usual Spell Focus (conjuration) -> Augment Summoning chain to boost STR and CON. Note that the Summon Monster spells do require a Focus Component which psychic casters aren't exempt from needing, so casting them in fox form could be problematic. (I have a Psychic Detective with Superior Shapeshifter that I was building that way until I realized this would be an issue.)

I did consider making a Summon Monster build, but from past experience with PFS scenarios, it is almost impossible to cast a 1 round spell like Summon Monster.

Most summoner builds that are in PFS play, rely on cast summon spells as standard actions, via archetypes, class features or feats like sacred summons.

That said, why is a Focus Component an issue? I thought all psychic spells don't require materiel components? (unless they are expensive)


Fair enough criticisms of the Summon Monster path. Perhaps I've gotten spoiled by the Occultist's standard action Servitor ability. ;)

It is true that you don't need cheap material components, but focus components are required just as they are for other types of magic.

OA wrote:

Components

Psychic magic originates from the distinctive qualities of the caster's composite being, rather than through arcane formulae or rote supplication to divine entities. Therefore, psychic spells never have verbal or somatic components, and have only expensive material components. Psychic spells are purely mental actions, and they can be cast even while the caster is pinned or paralyzed. Focus components work the same way with psychic spells as they do with other spells.

Lantern Lodge

Gisher wrote:

Fair enough criticisms of the Summon Monster path. Perhaps I've gotten spoiled by the Occultist's standard action Servitor ability. ;)

It is true that you don't need cheap material components, but focus components are required just as they are for other types of magic.

OA wrote:

Components

Psychic magic originates from the distinctive qualities of the caster's composite being, rather than through arcane formulae or rote supplication to divine entities. Therefore, psychic spells never have verbal or somatic components, and have only expensive material components. Psychic spells are purely mental actions, and they can be cast even while the caster is pinned or paralyzed. Focus components work the same way with psychic spells as they do with other spells.

Didn't know that! Thank you!

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