How to craft a Ring of Improved Invisibility?


Pathfinder RPG General Discussion


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

One of my players, running a Rogue, is interested in a Ring of Improved Invisibility. What would be the base cost and caster level? I honestly have tried figuring this out before, but always came up with different results.


For a use activated slotted item the formula would be:
spell level * caster level * 1,800 GP

For a use activated ring of greater invisibility that would be 4*7*1800 = 54,000 GP

For a continuous round per level spell the formula would be:
spell level * caster level * 4 * 2,000 GP.

For a continuous ring of greater invisibility that would be 4*7*4*2,000 = 224,000 GP.

A normal ring of invisibility is use activated and lasts for 3 minutes per activation. A use activated ring of greater invisibility would last 7 rounds per activation (at minimum caster level).

A normal ring of invisibility should cost 14,400 GP given the use activated formula, so there is a significant mark up that you might want to take into consideration.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

The price for such an item would be incredibly high considering how powerful the effect is and based on similar items.

Gallant Armors 54'000 gp there is way of the mark based on existing magical items.

A ring of Freedom of movement is a permanent 4th level spell on a ring, it costs 40'000. Now the major difference is that spell lasts 10 minutes a level and is a lot more situational but it is still considered a very good ring.

Improved invisibility only lasts 1 round a level and it is considered a very good spell because invisibility that doesn't turn off is a very powerful effect.

It would be incredibly expensive, I'll just put it this way, if your Rogue is on the wrong side of level 10 it shouldn't be on the table unless your playing a high powered game.


NoTongue wrote:

The price for such an item would be incredibly high considering how powerful the effect is and based on similar items.

Gallant Armors 54'000 gp there is way of the mark based on existing magical items.

A ring of Freedom of movement is a permanent 4th level spell on a ring, it costs 40'000. Now the major difference is that spell lasts 10 minutes a level and is a lot more situational but it is still considered a very good ring.

Improved invisibility only lasts 1 round a level and it is considered a very good spell because invisibility that doesn't turn off is a very powerful effect.

It would be incredibly expensive, I'll just put it this way, if your Rogue is on the wrong side of level 10 it shouldn't be on the table unless your playing a high powered game.

I am not saying that that item should exist at that price, I was only providing the calculation that was requested. 54k isn't out of the question, but I would probably limit the number of uses per day to avoid abuse.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

2 people marked this as a favorite.

My first instinct would be to simply say "no," and suggest the player get a wand and use UMD when they need it. But, if you want an estimate:
A normal ring of invisibility runs 20k gp. That's for a 2nd level spell at CL3. You proposed improved ring would be a 4th level spell at CL7, so multiply 20000*28/6 = 93333gp. Round up to 95k and it seems about right.


I would say no, or use the 224k price, because the player would likely say that they are using it once every 7 rounds to always be invisible.


Given a level 10 ninja can gain a closely related trick (invisible blade), I'd wait until a significantly higher level to hand over such a ring. It's one of the ninja's trademark abilities, basically a demicapstone.

Either way, such a ring has the potential to be completely overpowered in some encounters (bunch of mindless foes wait to be slaughtered) and completely useless in others (one opponent - with blindsight). So if I had to deal with the item, I'd design the encounters around it - give the rogue some easy prey, but make sure at least one important foe can see through invisibility. A spell like glitterdust might be most effective, while purge invisibility at least makes the rogue spend a round of panic on reactivating their ring.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Piccolo wrote:
One of my players, running a Rogue, is interested in a Ring of Improved Invisibility. What would be the base cost and caster level? I honestly have tried figuring this out before, but always came up with different results.

Gallant Armor's calculations of 224,000 gold is both accurate and relevant.

Heaven forbid there involves a quest to throw one of these rings into a certain volcano in a certain mountain that takes over 3 movies and two separate iterations to accomplish...


Invisibility Purge works for minutes per level, so reactivating the ring won't work.

I would say 60k for 3/day standard action activation for 7 rounds of greater invisibility. Even with crafting they won't be able to afford it before 11th or 12th level without heavy sacrifices. A glove of storing and 3 wands of greater invisibility from a summoner would cost about as much (57250) and have the benefit of spreading out the gold spent. Unless you plan to go epic it will likely be about as effective.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Well, the Reign of Winter campaign should go up to 18th level, assuming that the short adventure I tacked on (Witchwar Legacy) takes them up a level. So, it's feasible that with crafting, the Rogue might actually be able to get her hands on this. 224k base price sounds reasonable given the raw power of the Ring.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Cards, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It's an example of the sort of item that "should not exist", in the same sense that tentacular horrors from beyond the pale "should not exist".

If an item of continuous improved invisibility existed, it would be a major artifact, like the hand or eye of Vecna, requiring great sacrifice and little by little subverting the will of its bearer. Or was that the Head of Vecna?

Or it belongs to the formerly dead back returned to unlife fallen god-like wizard who created all the evil in the world at the knees of his former master, and saved a special helping of evil pie for the dolt foolish enough to imagine he can wield such power without adverse consequences.

So I suggest you let the player commission this item for 224,000 gp, but also let him come to the dawning realisation that not only do a lot of people want to take it away from him, but that using it for himself also has consequences he can soon no longer bear.

Wouldn't that be fun?

Dark Archive

You could always give him and Amulet of the Blooded. The Fey version is 10k gold and allows the wearer to be Greater Invisible for up to 9 non consecutive rounds per day.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Wheldrake wrote:

It's an example of the sort of item that "should not exist", in the same sense that tentacular horrors from beyond the pale "should not exist".

If an item of continuous improved invisibility existed, it would be a major artifact, like the hand or eye of Vecna, requiring great sacrifice and little by little subverting the will of its bearer. Or was that the Head of Vecna?

Or it belongs to the formerly dead back returned to unlife fallen god-like wizard who created all the evil in the world at the knees of his former master, and saved a special helping of evil pie for the dolt foolish enough to imagine he can wield such power without adverse consequences.

So I suggest you let the player commission this item for 224,000 gp, but also let him come to the dawning realisation that not only do a lot of people want to take it away from him, but that using it for himself also has consequences he can soon no longer bear.

Wouldn't that be fun?

No, it wouldn't. I am not that dishonorable. If a high level character wants a potent magic item, and PAYS for it, then by Arneson and Gygax, that character gets it.


I mean, you can use the magic item creation rules to find the cost of creating a ring that puts you constantly sunder the effect of "True Strike". It's just that you shouldn't, unless you want this to be a macguffin or carry some kind of horrific curse.


Hi folks!

It's called a decoy ring, and it costs 12,000gp.

Ultimate Equipment wrote:
decoy ring:This ring is a thick loop of mirrorlike metal. Whenever the wearer of this ring takes the withdraw action or becomes helpless (including falling unconscious), it instantly makes her invisible for 3 rounds and creates four illusory duplicates that either run off in opposite directions or perform other plausible actions that could draw enemy attention away from her. The duplicates last for 3 rounds before disappearing, but they instantly pop out of existence if struck by an attack (AC 10) and can be disbelieved (Will DC 19). Allies of the wearer always know her true location and can freely provide aid or assistance to her.

1) It's invisibility, not invisibility, so the rules about attacking breaking the effect do not apply. Furthermore, the spell used to create the item is mislead, which as the spell explicitly calls out a greater invisibility effect.

2) You activate it with a withdraw action (which presumably you can do from anywhere), and it lasts for 2 rounds more than that. More than enough time to do something dastardly with a trusty little knife, yes?
3) The illusory duplicates are very meh. I mean, there's 4 of them. It's not like you suddenly became quadruplets all of a sudden. After the first time you stab someone to death while invisible under this effect, the 2nd and 3rd times 4 screaming copies of you go running off in 4 different directions ought to be a serious clue that something isn't right.
4) Oh! And it's conditional invisibility! You're only invisible to your enemies. How convenient!


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Piccolo wrote:
Wheldrake wrote:

It's an example of the sort of item that "should not exist", in the same sense that tentacular horrors from beyond the pale "should not exist".

If an item of continuous improved invisibility existed, it would be a major artifact, like the hand or eye of Vecna, requiring great sacrifice and little by little subverting the will of its bearer. Or was that the Head of Vecna?

Or it belongs to the formerly dead back returned to unlife fallen god-like wizard who created all the evil in the world at the knees of his former master, and saved a special helping of evil pie for the dolt foolish enough to imagine he can wield such power without adverse consequences.

So I suggest you let the player commission this item for 224,000 gp, but also let him come to the dawning realisation that not only do a lot of people want to take it away from him, but that using it for himself also has consequences he can soon no longer bear.

Wouldn't that be fun?

No, it wouldn't. I am not that dishonorable. If a high level character wants a potent magic item, and PAYS for it, then by Arneson and Gygax, that character gets it.

Last time I made one of these rings, a bunch of halflings stole it, and one of them threw it into a volcano. It pretty much ended the whole campaign.


Piccolo wrote:
Wheldrake wrote:

It's an example of the sort of item that "should not exist", in the same sense that tentacular horrors from beyond the pale "should not exist".

If an item of continuous improved invisibility existed, it would be a major artifact, like the hand or eye of Vecna, requiring great sacrifice and little by little subverting the will of its bearer. Or was that the Head of Vecna?

Or it belongs to the formerly dead back returned to unlife fallen god-like wizard who created all the evil in the world at the knees of his former master, and saved a special helping of evil pie for the dolt foolish enough to imagine he can wield such power without adverse consequences.

So I suggest you let the player commission this item for 224,000 gp, but also let him come to the dawning realisation that not only do a lot of people want to take it away from him, but that using it for himself also has consequences he can soon no longer bear.

Wouldn't that be fun?

No, it wouldn't. I am not that dishonorable. If a high level character wants a potent magic item, and PAYS for it, then by Arneson and Gygax, that character gets it.

You may grow to regret that position, especially if you're letting them just research and create whatever magic item.


^ a GM has all of the power. What is there to regret? You can equip the enemies with the same magic items or even better ones if some sort of insane abuse comes from it.


*Thelith wrote:
^ a GM has all of the power. What is there to regret? You can equip the enemies with the same magic items or even better ones if some sort of insane abuse comes from it.

Most people dislike power level arms race in their games, or dealing with a campaign derailed from unintended and unforseen consequences of a magic item.

Also GM's should always be prepared for the PC's to get whatever magic you equip their enemies with.


A Ninja, at level ten, can turn Greater-Invisible as a Swift action for ten rounds at at time, up to about ten times per day. If a Ninja got a regular 20,000gp ring of invisibility, and just used the Invisible Blade trick when ready to attack, they'd be permanently invisible for all practical purposes.

So if you don't think that's overpowered, I don't see that the cost should be so high that it's impossible to get for a regular rogue before level 17 or so.

(Actually, whether or not it's overpowered probably depends massively on the types of enemies you're fighting. If the enemies can't see invisible, they're often practically helpless. If they can, the ability is worthless.)


Matthew Downie wrote:

A Ninja, at level ten, can turn Greater-Invisible as a Swift action for ten rounds at at time, up to about ten times per day. If a Ninja got a regular 20,000gp ring of invisibility, and just used the Invisible Blade trick when ready to attack, they'd be permanently invisible for all practical purposes.

So if you don't think that's overpowered, I don't see that the cost should be so high that it's impossible to get for a regular rogue before level 17 or so.

(Actually, whether or not it's overpowered probably depends massively on the types of enemies you're fighting. If the enemies can't see invisible, they're often practically helpless. If they can, the ability is worthless.)

I'd argue that there's a difference between "this class" can do a thing and "any class with enough gold" can do a thing. I'm not exactly convinced itd be broken on a rogue. So much of their combat balance rotates around sneak attack they need to be forcing it any way they can and well played will usually get it. For other classes its just kind of scary gravy. Casters in particular would love this item and probably be more of a problem


A Wizard could get a 20,000gp Ring of Invisibility, then cast Greater Invisibility as a Quickened Spell at the start of combat with a 75,500gp Rod. So I doubt they'd spend 224,000gp on this ring either.


ok thats one combat, how many greater invisibilities is the wizard going to memorize?


32,000gp to buy two Pearls of Power and cast it quickened three times a day from a single spell slot - most people don't fight more than three seriously dangerous encounters a day. That brings the cost up to 127,500gp.

Which might be about right for this ring.


"most people dont fight more than X"

Your campaign doesnt fight more than three dangerous encounters a day. The evidence doesn't exist to claim most people.


I feel like "no one table's anecdotes are really indicative of anything" is a maxim that should be more widely understood.

I mean, in my experience a day with more than 0 but fewer than 5 serious fights is extremely rare once anybody can cast greater invisibility. Plus "always on invisibility" completely trivializes those fights which, while not dangerous, are still supposed to require some expenditure of resources.

We could take the "x pearls of power and a quicken rod" argument to make the "Ring of continuous true strike" seem reasonable, which it obviously is not.


PossibleCabbage wrote:

I feel like "no one table's anecdotes are really indicative of anything" is a maxim that should be more widely understood.

I mean, in my experience a day with more than 0 but fewer than 5 serious fights is extremely rare once anybody can cast greater invisibility. Plus "always on invisibility" completely trivializes those fights which, while not dangerous, are still supposed to require some expenditure of resources.

We could take the "x pearls of power and a quicken rod" argument to make the "Ring of continuous true strike" seem reasonable, which it obviously is not.

I also kind of hate the assumption that these are just things you're guaranteed to have. I get you can take craft wondrous, but a pearl of power for fourth level or quicken metamagic rod by RAW exists to be purchased when its randomly rolled. Their base value is higher than the 75% chance of the largest cities to have an item in stock. By RAW you have to luck into them being in the 1 to 4d4 medium items or 1-3d4 major items in the case of a standard quicken rod.


I guess blame the books for giving people the idea that pricing magic items is a science- that since there's a formula we should be able to plug any spell in and get a valid magic item. The reason that magic item pricing is an art and not a science is that it doesn't work this well, since sometimes you get something seriously over-priced and sometimes you get a modest price on an item that simply should not exist.

So the question that keeps all the continuous true strike rings and the like from existing is the GM seriously considering "how much of a headache is this going to be when it starts getting used in every single scene". If the rogue's gonna go around just ganking everybody in sight, you're going to have to start seeding the world with things that can see invisibility (7th level Occultists as far as the eye can see!) and we've now wasted everybody's time and GP.

Whereas tactics for landing sneak attacks reliably like "having a flanking partner" or "getting swift action feinting" or "asking the wizard nicely" are not likely to cause any issues. Honestly the most concerning thing about the "ring of continuous greater invisibility" is that it becomes a literal Ring of Gyges which ruins more than just combat.


The irony of course being that theorycrafting tiers and complaints of power balance regularly fall back on "narrative power". Then use combat balance to determine if a thing is balanced, ignoring its narrative effect.


PossibleCabbage wrote:

I guess blame the books for giving people the idea that pricing magic items is a science- that since there's a formula we should be able to plug any spell in and get a valid magic item. The reason that magic item pricing is an art and not a science is that it doesn't work this well, since sometimes you get something seriously over-priced and sometimes you get a modest price on an item that simply should not exist.

So the question that keeps all the continuous true strike rings and the like from existing is the GM seriously considering "how much of a headache is this going to be when it starts getting used in every single scene". If the rogue's gonna go around just ganking everybody in sight, you're going to have to start seeding the world with things that can see invisibility (7th level Occultists as far as the eye can see!) and we've now wasted everybody's time and GP.

Whereas tactics for landing sneak attacks reliably like "having a flanking partner" or "getting swift action feinting" or "asking the wizard nicely" are not likely to cause any issues. Honestly the most concerning thing about the "ring of continuous greater invisibility" is that it becomes a literal Ring of Gyges which ruins more than just combat.

Worth noting again that the official rule on Magic Item Pricing is:

Quote:
The correct way to price an item is by comparing its abilities to similar items, and only if there are no similar items should you use the pricing formulas to determine an approximate price for the item. If you discover a loophole that allows an item to have an ability for a much lower price than is given for a comparable item, the GM should require using the price of the item, as that is the standard cost for such an effect.

=

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder RPG / General Discussion / How to craft a Ring of Improved Invisibility? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in General Discussion