I am playing in a Rise of the Runelords campaign and would like some advice regarding a build. I want to be a Bad Touch Cleric (Leaning Lamashtu for Trickery and Madness). I am looking for suggestions involving the cleric part of the build and also the other side of the gestalt. These are the character creation rules.
Level 5 (I am dropping in partway into chapter 2, have played roughly this far in the campaign before)
Regular WBL
Gestalt
All Paizo
82 points to allocate to attributes, none lower than 6 or higher than 18 before racials.
Please aim towards at least moderate if not higher levels of optimization. I don't mind a little bit of metagaming regarding the future of the story, as long as it's not overboard. However, if you advise a build choice based on future events in the module, please don't spoil why. Thanks!
Also actually open to any combination of Gestalt Classes. Prefer to not be something that is only useful in combat though. So at least one side with good spellcasting and/or other out of combat utility (skills, etc.)
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High optimization? Unchained Monk.
All good saves, full BAB, 4+Int skills (passable), good Wis synergy including Wis to AC, excellent mobility, can deliver touch spells or domain powers through unarmed strike.
Also, do you mean 28 point buy?
High optimization? Unchained Monk.
All good saves, full BAB, 4+Int skills (passable), good Wis synergy including Wis to AC, excellent mobility, can deliver touch spells or domain powers through unarmed strike.
Also, do you mean 28 point buy?
The only potential problem I could see there is the Alignment requirement, though I don't think that would be an issue.
Can you point me to where it says I can deliver touch spell or power as part of an unarmed strike?
And no, I mean 82 total points, its a weird system they are using for that.
Also, I did consider monk, and still am, I guess that pretty much limits the out of combat utility to spells, which is still ok. I am having kind of a tough time with this because I usually compulsively play CHA based characters.
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Right, you did say Lamashtu.
Having a point buy that high makes MAD options a lot more feasible. Thinking...
I linked the Domain Strike feat above. Rules for touch spells:
If you don’t discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren’t considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack. If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.
Ah, sorry, didn't see the hyperlink. Looks neat. If I am reading that correctly that would also allow you to deliver it as part of a Flurry, yes?
Edit: the domain power, not the spell, at least unless you cast the spell the round before and then used Flurry the next round.
But the domain power you would simply Flurry and then on the first hit you would use your Swift to apply the domain power. Correct?
Also I can see no reason not to take the Ecclesitheurge Archetype? Not wearing armor anyway and you can craft Neck slot abilities onto your holy symbol (Looking at AMF).
Edit: Assuming of course I go with UnchMonk
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Unchained Monk is not all good saves. For some reason, it is poor Will.
Was talking about the gestalt as a whole, since the cleric covers the good Will save.
But the domain power you would simply Flurry and then on the first hit you would use your Swift to apply the domain power. Correct?
Correct. You can't spend ki to get an extra attack if you use your swift for domain strike, but it's still good action economy.
Also I can see no reason not to take the Ecclesitheurge Archetype? Not wearing armor anyway and you can craft Neck slot abilities onto your holy symbol (Looking at AMF).
Edit: Assuming of course I go with UnchMonk
You do lose your 3rd level Channel Energy die in addition to not being able to wear armour, but that's a trivial disadvantage compared to the flexibility with your domain, the utility of Blessing of the Faithful, and the bonded holy symbol (which also gives you one extra cleric spell of any level).
Magus would be great once you reach level 6 with Broad Study.
That's true - and with the point buy getting both Wis and Int wouldn't be hard.
Shaman would sync well with Wis and give you hexes which are great to have (infinite uses per day, no SR, no concentration), and there are spirits to work with any build.
It's not a bad combo, especially with debuffing hexes. But you've got a bad ref save and don't improve your HD or BAB.
82 total points; so you could have 18 Str, 18 Wis, 14 Con, 12 Dex, 12 Int, 8 Cha (18+18+14+12+12+8=82), is that right?
If you want more out of combat utility then slayer or ranger // cleric is totally doable. You're looking at medium armor in this case rather than Wis to AC, which is a wash more or less (the medium armor is more AC total, Wis to AC applies to touch AC as well); with the dex prereqs bypassed by ranger combat styles you could fight with sword and touch spell using two-weapon fighting.
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Yup, cleric//ranger or slayer is solid, though it does lean towards battle cleric.
Another idea if you're keen on more utility is Cleric // Inquisitor.
It lacks the martial skill and great mobility of the UnMonk and has no good ref save, but you get 6 skill points per level and utility abilities including Detect Alignment, Discern Lies, Track, and Stern Gaze (+1/2 level to Sense Motive and Intimidate).
It's not terrible with martial combat, either. The base class gets Judgment (selection of basic combat buffs), Bane, Cunning Initiative (Wis to Initiative, nice!), Solo Tactics plus Teamwork feats, and Stalwart. If you're not a fan of Judgment you could take Sanctified Slayer (link) for a simpler, unlimited-use buff.
Personally, though, I'd go Relic Hunter (link). You trade Judgment and Bane for three occultist implements (link) by level 5, and another at levels 7, 10, 13, etc. Focus powers are a bit more limited at one every 4 levels, but you can still pick up some handy tricks. Divination's got great utility - I really like Mind Eye for scouting, though it does compete with Conjuration's Side Step for 8th level focus power. Even just looking at base and resonant powers, Transmutation and Abjuration can largely make up for the lost combat buffs by giving you a free stat belt, cloak of resistance, emergency temp HP (mind barrier) and a more flexible but standard action weapon enhancement (Legacy Weapon).
Another combo I was considering was Wizard (Conjuration[Teleportation) // Empiricist Investigator. I know its not terribly synergistic on the base stats (bad fort, 3/4 BAB, d8 HD) but if I am a Tiefling with Prehensile Tail, I can drink extracts as a swift action using tail. Plus there is a decent bit of utility with Trapfinding plus several more useful skills being keyed off INT (UMD especially)
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It's a good combo, though prehensile tail doesn't affect the time it takes to drink extracts. It allows you to retrieve objects as a swift action:
Many tieflings have tails, but some have long, flexible tails that can be used to carry items. While they cannot wield weapons with their tails, they can use them to retrieve small, stowed objects carried on their persons as a swift action. This racial trait replaces fiendish sorcery.
Using an extract is a standard action that includes drawing the extract as a free action, so retrieving the extract more quickly isn't useful.
The bad Fort save is concerning, but I wouldn't worry about 3/4 BAB and d8 HD if you're planning on slinging spells and mostly staying out of combat. Not that you couldn't use a weapon in a pinch if you got yourself a high Dex and Weapon Finesse, and used studied combat.
You could also take wizard//alchemist for a better Fort save. Somewhat less utility, but you'll still have lots of skill points and two different spell lists. Mind chemist is nice for the Cognatogen and the massive body to knowledge skills.
What's the rest of the party?
One option that I had considered was dipping one level of inspired blade swashbuckler on the investigator side, for an INT panache pool, some deeds, and free finesse and focus with rapier.
The cognatogen alchemist sounds interesting though. The rest of the party is a Bloodrager/Bard, a Oracle/Sorcerer, and something fighteresque with some minor casting, maybe magus or ranger, I can't remember
You could go Magus, and take the Broad Study arcana to spell combat with cleric spells.
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One option that I had considered was dipping one level of inspired blade swashbuckler on the investigator side, for an INT panache pool, some deeds, and free finesse and focus with rapier.
Not a bad plan.
The cognatogen alchemist sounds interesting though. The rest of the party is a Bloodrager/Bard, a Oracle/Sorcerer, and something fighteresque with some minor casting, maybe magus or ranger, I can't remember
That does sound like magical versatility is a higher priority than martial prowess - point in favour of the Wizard // Investigator or Alchemist with the possible Swash dip. Cleric // UnMonk might not be the best plan if you've got two frontliners and don't need a healer.
Though as another option to consider, if you'd still prefer cleric: Cleric // Hunter? All good saves, 6 skills/level, some extra casting, some extra combat abilities. The animal companion could help with mobility and accuracy (Outflank). Alternatively, you can take Feral Hunter (link) for shapeshifting and a minor boost to Summon Nature's Ally, or Forester (link) for Favoured Terrain, bonus combat feats, Tactician, Breath of Life 1/day, and other assorted bonuses. Either archetype lets you permanently apply the Animal Focus benefits to yourself. It also seems like a thematic class to pair with a cleric of Lamashtu.
I'd be a little more worried about the 3/4 BAB and h8 HD on this one than on the wizard//investigator or alchemist, though, since a bad touch cleric is aiming to be in melee range more regularly. Animal Focus and buffs like Barkskin would certainly help, but I'm not sure they'd do enough.