Qualifying for feats with temporary bonuses


Rules Questions


Qualifying for a feat can be done with permanent ability score bonuses (the official example given being a +2 Belt of Giant Strength worn for 24h).

Does this also apply to permanent bonuses to things other than ability scores? Specifically: can using a 24h Caster Level bonus (from for instance an Ioun Stone) help qualify for Item Crafting feats?


I would guess that permanent is permanent, until you don't have the item.

for a specific class, like wizard;
Generally Wizard level = Level or Character Level but is not guaranteed.
Wizard level (or Wizard) ≤ Caster Level. Magical Knack is usually used to increase effective Caster Level.

As the feats say 'Caster Level' and there's no special text about actual wizard level you are good to go.

One problem might be access to the spell you are trying to enchant, that may require an NPC or many scrolls and can get expensive.
There is a loophole about +5 DC for each requirement you don't meet(easy in most cases) but a prerequisite must be met.

Magic Item Creation:
To create magic items, spellcasters use special feats which allow them to invest time and money in an item’s creation. At the end of this process, the spellcaster must make a single skill check (usually Spellcraft, but sometimes another skill) to finish the item. If an item type has multiple possible skills, you choose which skill to make the check with. The DC to create a magic item is 5 + the caster level for the item. Failing this check means that the item does not function and the materials and time are wasted. Failing this check by 5 or more results in a cursed item.

Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item’s creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by 5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting its prerequisites.

While item creation costs are handled in detail below, note that normally the two primary factors are the caster level of the creator and the level of the spell or spells put into the item. A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell. Using metamagic feats, a caster can place spells in items at a higher level than normal.


There aren't really ANY difference between temporary vs. permanent. "Temporary ability bonuses should apply to anything relating to that ability score, just as permanent ability score bonuses do." If you qualify with a permanent change, you qualify with a temporary one. [of course, a temp bonus means your feat might not work if you lose it, but even 'permanent' one can be post]

FAQ


graystone wrote:
There aren't really ANY difference between temporary vs. permanent.

Agreed, but it does conflict with this official statement on the matter. Though I think that never made it into a formal FAQ.


VRMH wrote:
graystone wrote:
There aren't really ANY difference between temporary vs. permanent.
Agreed, but it does conflict with this official statement on the matter. Though I think that never made it into a formal FAQ.

A MUCH more recent example of temp feats being used for prerequisites is the brawler's flurry: it's two weapon fighting is usable for prerequisite even though it's a temp feat. This and the FAQ I posted lead me to think that SKR's old post is out of date and is not the current thinking: IMO they agreed with his point #5 and got rid of the "needlessly complex" difference between temp and permanent stats.


Does that mean possession of a Death Kneel wand qualifies me for craft poppet?


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toastedamphibian wrote:
Does that mean possession of a Death Kneel wand qualifies me for craft poppet?

That would depend on what death kneel does! Sounds nasty! ;)

If you mean death knell... Well it depends if you think 'effective' 'stats' qualify for prerequisites and that adding to caster level actually gives a caster level to a - stat [for instance, does a +2 dex give an immobile creature with - dex a 2 dex?]. Then it'd have to be a 6HD or you can't complete your hour block of crafting and since your adventuring to kill creatures, you're crafting an 2 hours of craft = 1 hour of crafting counted.

So overall there are a half dozen questions in play before you have to worry about temp ability. If you rule that a death knell gives a non caster an actual caster level of 1, I see no reason to limit it for feats if it works for other abilities.


Why you gotta assume I'd be adventuring? Could just drag all my victims to my workshop, and make a day of it...

Extended Death Knell on a 6 hd creature gets you 2 hours. Increase dc by 5 to double progress gets you 500gp. Tiny poppet price is 310... would need 2 days and charges for a small.


toastedamphibian wrote:

Why you gotta assume I'd be adventuring? Could just drag all my victims to my workshop, and make a day of it...

Extended Death Knell on a 6 hd creature gets you 2 hours. Increase dc by 5 to double progress gets you 500gp. Tiny poppet price is 310... would need 2 days and charges for a small.

The FAQ quoted above refers to Ability Scores, not caster levels.

I think you are confused. Death Knell is not required to craft poppets nor is it required for any enhancement listed in Adventurer's Armory 2.
Poppets appear in AdvtrArmory2 pg 30.
Craft Poppet Feat (Item Creation) 1st level lets you craft them.
However;
basic poppets(tiny) Requirements Craft Construct or Craft Poppet, make whole, mending; Skill Craft (carpentry) DC 15; Cost 160 gp with a listed price of 300gp.
poppets(small) Requirements Craft Construct or Craft Poppet, make whole, mending; Skill Craft (carpentry) DC 18; Cost 500 gp with a listed price of 900gp.
A creature with a familiar can select a poppet as his familiar.

for PFS Addt'l Res Feats: The feats in this book are legal for play except Craft Poppet and Modification Master.

If you are using Death Knell to increase your caster level I would read the spell more carefully. "Additionally, your effective caster level goes up by +1, improving spell effects dependent on caster level. This increase in effective caster level does not grant you access to more spells. These effects last for 10 minutes per HD of the subject creature." So it's more like Magical Knack than Bull's Strength. I'm afraid you'll have to slay your victims of suitable HD and CR to gain experience to go up that level.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The caster level is a prerequisite only if liste as such. In that instance you can bypass it by takin a +5 to the DC for lacking a prerequisite (some GM will apply a +5 for each missing level).

If it is not a prerequisite, the finished item only need a CL sufficient to cast the spells used in making it. That increase the DC of making the item, but nothing more (base DC is the CL of the items+5).

Wands, scrolls and potions are exception to that, as you need the spell you want to put in them and the spell at most has your CL.
Using Death kneel you can make them with a higher caster, level, but you need to have the increase in caster level for the full time spend enchanting. As a minimum 4 hours.

PRD wrote:
If time is dedicated to creation, it must be spent in uninterrupted 4-hour blocks.

Several uses of the wand and a lot of sacrificed creatures.


Diego Rossi wrote:
The caster level is a prerequisite only if liste as such.

True. But if you use a boosted Caster Level to qualify for a crafting Feat, then you'd need to boost it again to make actual use of that Feat. Regardless of whether the stuff you're making requires any CL.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
VRMH wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
The caster level is a prerequisite only if listed as such.
True. But if you use a boosted Caster Level to qualify for a crafting Feat, then you'd need to boost it again to make actual use of that Feat. Regardless of whether the stuff you're making requires any CL.

Sure.


Stupid ioun stones, being more effective and economical for pointless shenanigans than wands and serial killing combined!


toastedamphibian wrote:
Why you gotta assume I'd be adventuring? Could just drag all my victims to my workshop, and make a day of it...

I'd count having to kill a creature distracting and and "distracting or dangerous environment" counts as adventuring.

toastedamphibian wrote:
Extended Death Knell on a 6 hd creature gets you 2 hours. Increase dc by 5 to double progress gets you 500gp. Tiny poppet price is 310... would need 2 days and charges for a small.

Duration is only one of the problems with the set up. I still don't think it's legal to get a caster level of 1 from a character without a caster level in much the same way a prestige class that adds +1 caster level doesn't do anything if you don't already have one.


toastedamphibian wrote:
Stupid ioun stones, being more effective and economical for pointless shenanigans than wands and serial killing combined!

Or instead you could use a 1st level commoner. A wannabe witch who was adopted because of her purple eyes. Give her matching bling, put a ring on it and have her stay all day and all night. That's worth four Ioun Stones.


Wouldn't work.

Quote:


If you succeed, you can increase an adjacent spellcaster’s caster level by 1 until the beginning...

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