#9-13 The Lion's Justice GM thread


GM Discussion

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh aka Terminalmancer

This looks like a lot of fun. Lots of callbacks to old scenarios... halfway through I thought I was reading the Dalsine Affair.

That map, though... looks like it's a minimum of 9 feet 4 inches, by 6 feet 4 inches? That's big. Like, Season 1 big. I don't think I'm printing this one!

Sovereign Court *****

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This scenario is great, but it has a lot of errors. Here's a few:

Spoiler:
-The Brotherhood of Silence Concocter has Spring Attack at both tiers, but he doesn't have any weapons that he can use with it, and Spring Attack doesn't let you use standard action class features.
-The safe has a "failsafe magical effect" that triggers when someone tries to open the safe. So... a trap. But with no DC to find or disable. Also, what are its hardness and HP? Tables without disable device will definitely try to cut it open.
-Karina Deckland's tactics mention Arcane Accuracy, but the talent she has in Accurate Strike. She also has Vital Strike, which she can't use with spell strike or spell combat.

All that said, I love the scenario. The callback to

Spoiler:
Infernal Vault
is great, and I'm so glad to see this level of coordination with the AP.

Sovereign Court *****

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Also, this scenario's art is unbelievable. If I had to list my favorite PFS art, three pictures from this scenario would be on the list.

Shadow Lodge ***** Venture-Lieutenant, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka thistledown

F'ing H' that's a big map. Puts me in mind of Ghenett Manor. And yet for all that, the doors still mess with Huge creatures getting around.

Silver Crusade ***** Venture-Captain, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

I started prepping and did some preliminary scaling work... the "big" map would take about 100 pages.. about as big as 11 flip maps.... I am not sure if this is a challenge or/and a bad idea to print this one.

Other than that so far, the scenario looks spectacular, and now I need to wait until my current level 5 sov court character is in the level range to actually play this.
He is a primal companion hunter with a lion.. and a huge lion blade fanboy... I blame the outrageously awesome picture on page 18.

* Starfinder Society Developer

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With regards to the map, it's intended that there's only two major "action areas" that GMs should have to concern themselves with. Yes, it's a ridiculous size for a scenario map, but in the name of campaign verisimilitude, it made complete sense to use the same map as the Adventure Path employs. Similarly, since it's a 7-11 high-tier capstone event, we expect our GMs to "Prove Illidan Wrong" (yes, that was a World of Warcraft joke, I'm sorry.)

Shadow Lodge ***** Venture-Lieutenant, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka thistledown

I printed it out yesterday on my 22x34 plotter. Just the two focus areas still took 5 sheets. (could have maybe done it in 4) I went a bit beyond and did the entire building in 8, but skipped the grounds. I also printed one out that shows the entire map at 1" = 20' scale, which takes up most of a sheet. I'm calling that 'party scale' and it'll be used to show overland movement of the whole group.

What annoys me is the other map. I know budget issues come in and flip maps get used, but using the same map for his house that you used for his museum a few months ago just breaks verisimilitude for me and feels a little sloppy. For flip maps the Pathfinder Lodge (ironic) would fit, or the Wizard's Tower (a bit small maybe). Going into unique maps, 5-03, 5-14, or 8-11 have maps that could be re-purposed without feeling repetitive. (I could have sworn Blando's Frozen Mansion was used in a scenario at some point, but I can't find it now. Must have been a home game)

*I have not really read the scenario yet, just extracted the images and done a quick scan of the document to check scales and things. If there's a good reason to have this house match the museum, ignore my last paragraph.

Silver Crusade ***** Venture-Captain, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Thurston Hillman wrote:
With regards to the map, it's intended that there's only two major "action areas" that GMs should have to concern themselves with. Yes, it's a ridiculous size for a scenario map, but in the name of campaign verisimilitude, it made complete sense to use the same map as the Adventure Path employs. Similarly, since it's a 7-11 high-tier capstone event, we expect our GMs to "Prove Illidan Wrong" (yes, that was a World of Warcraft joke, I'm sorry.)

Using the same map really makes a lot of sense, and I think players will appreciate it... as will I should I find time to run it (and there is certainly demand after the recent sov court scenarios).

And I actually managed to get his approval basically telling me that I am sufficiently prepared for my Demon Hunter in WoW.

James Anderson wrote:

I printed it out yesterday on my 22x34 plotter. Just the two focus areas still took 5 sheets. (could have maybe done it in 4) I went a bit beyond and did the entire building in 8, but skipped the grounds. I also printed one out that shows the entire map at 1" = 20' scale, which takes up most of a sheet. I'm calling that 'party scale' and it'll be used to show overland movement of the whole group.

What annoys me is the other map. I know budget issues come in and flip maps get used, but using the same map for his house that you used for his museum a few months ago just breaks verisimilitude for me and feels a little sloppy. For flip maps the Pathfinder Lodge (ironic) would fit, or the Wizard's Tower (a bit small maybe). Going into unique maps, 5-03, 5-14, or 8-11 have maps that could be re-purposed without feeling repetitive. (I could have sworn Blando's Frozen Mansion was used in a scenario at some point, but I can't find it now. Must have been a home game)

*I have not really read the scenario yet, just extracted the images and done a quick scan of the document to check scales and things. If there's a good reason to have this house match the museum, ignore my last paragraph.

Pretty envious, I plan to print A4 sized maps and glue a lot, mostly since I currently lack a plotter and want to store the maps.

Please try to share pictures of the table when you run it^^

Sovereign Court ***** Venture-Captain, North Carolina—Central Region aka Kyrand

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Had a chance to play this one at Illeist's table last weekend. Because our Venture-Captain is a particularly loveable brand of crazy, he made a full size map. Something about the large scale map made the events within have an even larger dramatic impact than I think a normal map would have. Definitely in my top 5 favorite scenarios.

Silver Crusade ***** Venture-Captain, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Landon Hatfield wrote:
Had a chance to play this one at Illeist's table last weekend. Because our Venture-Captain is a particularly loveable brand of crazy, he made a full size map. Something about the large scale map made the events within have an even larger dramatic impact than I think a normal map would have. Definitely in my top 5 favorite scenarios.

I am very curious about the logistics, could you please provide details ?

Sovereign Court ***** Venture-Captain, North Carolina—Central Region aka Kyrand

Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
Landon Hatfield wrote:
Had a chance to play this one at Illeist's table last weekend. Because our Venture-Captain is a particularly loveable brand of crazy, he made a full size map. Something about the large scale map made the events within have an even larger dramatic impact than I think a normal map would have. Definitely in my top 5 favorite scenarios.
I am very curious about the logistics, could you please provide details ?

As I understand it, he has access to a large scale printer via his work, and was able to do it in three long strips. I'll poke him to drop by this thread in case he has better details.

*** Venture-Agent, Utah—Provo aka Chess Pwn

So I ran this last night and something kinda really bugged me. The safe in the the house that is trapped. The only way to get the documents is a DC 35/40 disable device check and if you fail you lose out on 750gp. Seems rather rough to randomly throw a SUPER high trained only DC and have no alternatives and have it cause a loss of gold.

Silver Crusade ***** ⦵⦵ RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
Landon Hatfield wrote:
Had a chance to play this one at Illeist's table last weekend. Because our Venture-Captain is a particularly loveable brand of crazy, he made a full size map. Something about the large scale map made the events within have an even larger dramatic impact than I think a normal map would have. Definitely in my top 5 favorite scenarios.
I am very curious about the logistics, could you please provide details ?

I printed it on an HP Designjet 520T printer (36" wide roll of paper, approximately 35" wide of printable space).

I copied the image out of the scenario, trimmed it slightly, then pasted it into Excel and resized it to actual size. In the printer settings I set up a custom paper size whose length was the length of the map.

Excel then tiled the image into three 'pages' which printed in three long strips (105" long, or 8 and 3/4 feet). If I was smart I would have printed the pages one at a time so the printer would have cut after each page, instead it printed each contiguously so I needed to manually cut the pages at their ends. The total assembled map is slightly over 6 feet wide.

I laid them all out on several large conference tables that I pushed together and trimmed the edges (leaving one edge where two strips needed to be joined to provide overlap and overall structural integrity).

After trimming, I lined up the edges where two trips needed to be joined. When I was satisfied with the seam I used small pieces of transparent tape along the seam every six inches or so.

I then turned the map over and used transparent packing tape along the seams. Normally I would have then used the same transparent packing tape on the map side, but I was pressed for time and needed to get it to the convention (this was done on the morning the scenario was being run).

EDIT

I'm considering affixing the ends to some dowel rods so it can be rolled like a scroll.

Shadow Lodge ***** Venture-Lieutenant, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka thistledown

Michael Eshleman wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
Landon Hatfield wrote:
Had a chance to play this one at Illeist's table last weekend. Because our Venture-Captain is a particularly loveable brand of crazy, he made a full size map. Something about the large scale map made the events within have an even larger dramatic impact than I think a normal map would have. Definitely in my top 5 favorite scenarios.
I am very curious about the logistics, could you please provide details ?

I printed it on an HP Designjet 520T printer (36" wide roll of paper, approximately 35" wide of printable space).

I copied the image out of the scenario, trimmed it slightly, then pasted it into Excel and resized it to actual size. In the printer settings I set up a custom paper size whose length was the length of the map.

Excel then tiled the image into three 'pages' which printed in three long strips (105" long, or 8 and 3/4 feet). If I was smart I would have printed the pages one at a time so the printer would have cut after each page, instead it printed each contiguously so I needed to manually cut the pages at their ends. The total assembled map is slightly over 6 feet wide.

I laid them all out on several large conference tables that I pushed together and trimmed the edges (leaving one edge where two strips needed to be joined to provide overlap and overall structural integrity).

After trimming, I lined up the edges where two trips needed to be joined. When I was satisfied with the seam I used small pieces of transparent tape along the seam every six inches or so.

I then turned the map over and used transparent packing tape along the seams. Normally I would have then used the same transparent packing tape on the map side, but I was pressed for time and needed to get it to the convention (this was done on the morning the scenario was being run).

EDIT

I'm considering affixing the ends to some dowel rods so it can be rolled like a scroll.

Hey, I use the same printer! But tuned for 34" rolls and run through AutoCAD.

The Exchange ***

Page 16, scaling event 2, should the lion blade adjustment be enacted only in the case of four player adjustment only, or any APL table? To address it it might be good to bullet point all three or add a rule between them if they are independent.

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

I appreciate that the content in this one was kept laser focused and fairly streamlined. The combats at high tier took long enough that had we had more areas to get through we would have run well over 5 hours. As it was, we got through it in about four and a half hours I think.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Agent, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

I am curious how others are handling the Concocter.

As written the tactics don't make a whole lot of sense (Spring Attack with no method for actually employing those feats, the tactics notes seems to think injections wont break invisibility when they very clearly will) are we just muddling through as best we can or making some kind of adjustment to the tactics as written?

*****

Douglas Edwards wrote:

I am curious how others are handling the Concocter.

As written the tactics don't make a whole lot of sense (Spring Attack with no method for actually employing those feats, the tactics notes seems to think injections wont break invisibility when they very clearly will) are we just muddling through as best we can or making some kind of adjustment to the tactics as written?

We played last night, assuming this is the chef guy he didnt really have much room to spring attack anything.

This felt a lot shorter than Salvation of Sages. I am not sure if there was an optional encounter which we skipped.

Silver Crusade ***** ⦵⦵ RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

James Anderson wrote:
Hey, I use the same printer! But tuned for 34" rolls and run through AutoCAD.

Cool! Sadly, I don't have AutoCAD... :(

Sovereign Court *****

1 person marked this as a favorite.
andreww wrote:
This felt a lot shorter than Salvation of Sages. I am not sure if there was an optional encounter which we skipped.

There are adventure paths shorter than Salvation of the Sages.

This scenario can run long, but no more than any other 7-11.

Sovereign Court ****

I broke the final encounter with Puzzle Box, GM rule he’d do a full withdraw rather than fight at the staggering penalty I inflicted. Cost us a few items and a lot of gold

Tempted to sell the spell out of the book now

*** Venture-Agent, Utah—Provo aka Chess Pwn

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Cloren Chenross wrote:

I broke the final encounter with Puzzle Box, GM rule he’d do a full withdraw rather than fight at the staggering penalty I inflicted. Cost us a few items and a lot of gold

Tempted to sell the spell out of the book now

If I'm understanding right that you lost gold for the scenario because the last guy ran instead of being killed that shouldn't have happened. If you win the encounter creatively (making them so bad they'd rather run sounds like a creative solution) then you're supposed to still get full rewards for solving the encounter. It's in the guide and everything.

****

Illeist wrote:

This scenario is great, but it has a lot of errors. Here's a few:

** spoiler omitted **

All that said, I love the scenario. The callback to ** spoiler omitted ** is great, and I'm so glad to see this level of coordination with the AP.

I'm prepping this now and was a bit confused about this too. After reading through the stat block, checking the archetype and the SQ should answer this problem.

Hopefully that's vague enough to answer the question without passing out any spoilers.

****

Possible work around for something very hard to do.

Spoiler:
About the safe -
Thinking about letting the players have a chance, either by having Ionnia warning them, or also making a perception check for the safe. Then if needed, allow them to pry the safe out of the wall and bring it to the Lion's.

Sovereign Court *****

I used my adamantine lock pick (aka nodachi) while our cleric cast detect magic to suppress the trap. With the door off,and the trap suppressed, we made away with the goods

Now, I can see those of less than Taldan ingenuity may not have come up with this solution, but it 8s a good thing that I am Taldan to the core. Now, I know that The Grand Prince must be removed, assuming he managed to survive.

Shadow Lodge *****

Dispel magic, right? :P

****

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..Um, don't you have to see the magic to dispell it? The trap is inside the safe, not outside.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Agent, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

andreww wrote:
Douglas Edwards wrote:

I am curious how others are handling the Concocter.

As written the tactics don't make a whole lot of sense (Spring Attack with no method for actually employing those feats, the tactics notes seems to think injections wont break invisibility when they very clearly will) are we just muddling through as best we can or making some kind of adjustment to the tactics as written?

We played last night, assuming this is the chef guy he didnt really have much room to spring attack anything.

This felt a lot shorter than Salvation of Sages. I am not sure if there was an optional encounter which we skipped.

My issue is whether to adjust tactics to reflect what the actual rules are or to fudge the actual rules to achieve what is the intended effect spelled out by the tactics notes.

Something sort of similar happens in the magus fight, though that seems to be a simple copy/paste error.

Grand Lodge **** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—Knoxville aka tchrman35

Has a consensus ever been reached about pounce and ride by?

I can certainly visualize it all happening, but it seems really, quite overpowered.

Sovereign Court ** Venture-Agent, Canada—Ontario—Toronto aka crashcanuck

This is why I love that I work for a company that prints billboards, I am getting the giant map printed at 1/2 scale.

****

Douglas Edwards wrote:
andreww wrote:
Douglas Edwards wrote:

I am curious how others are handling the Concocter.

As written the tactics don't make a whole lot of sense (Spring Attack with no method for actually employing those feats, the tactics notes seems to think injections wont break invisibility when they very clearly will) are we just muddling through as best we can or making some kind of adjustment to the tactics as written?

We played last night, assuming this is the chef guy he didnt really have much room to spring attack anything.

This felt a lot shorter than Salvation of Sages. I am not sure if there was an optional encounter which we skipped.

My issue is whether to adjust tactics to reflect what the actual rules are or to fudge the actual rules to achieve what is the intended effect spelled out by the tactics notes.

Something sort of similar happens in the magus fight, though that seems to be a simple copy/paste error.

Actually the tactics do work for the Concocter. You have to take a look at the class and archetype.

Spoiler:
This a alchemist archetype that gives up access to bombs and replaces it by being able to deliver certain effects with a touch attack. In the case of this encounter it's confusion and/or a modified Hold Person with penalties applied to the person making a save vs effect.

*** Venture-Agent, Utah—Provo aka Chess Pwn

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the deal is that injections are a standard action to use, and spring attack don't let you take standard actions but attack actions, so you can't use injections with spring attack.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Agent, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

Exactly. The invisibility thing I can chalk up to being a "he uses that particular tactic r1 but doesnt necessarily pause to reapply invisibility, nor is this intended to be greater invisibility" sort of note.

But the Spring Attack really seems to be like, the key to his tactics working and him not being turned into a fine red mist in a single turn so its sort of important.

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh aka Terminalmancer

To be quite honest, I decided to run the tactics as written and not as they would actually work should a player try it. Even then he got pasted pretty quickly. It's not a particularly powerful build at the best of times.

*** Venture-Agent, Utah—Provo aka Chess Pwn

I ran as is with spring attack being useless and he disabled a fighter for a good long time and helped another guy drop, so it's wasn't the worst thing that he had useless feats.

Shadow Lodge ***** Venture-Lieutenant, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka thistledown

Something that was brought to my attention regarding the Bone Devils in high tier. There's a problem with the interaction of their Fear Aura and their Invisibility. While the aura is only a 5' radius, deliberately moving so that it affects someone can be viewed as an attack, which would pop their invisibility. This prevents them from doing invisible fly-bys of the party and crowd, as they would become visible as soon as it hits the first person.

Sure, they can re-apply it as an action, but it means they're popping in and out of invisibility, not just constantly buzzing around.

They have no listed tactics other than a general comment that they're flying around, so I don't know if this is intended or if it's good / bad, just wanted to point it out.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

Pretty sure the passive and always on Fear Aura would be included under the "Causing harm indirectly is not an attack." clause for Invisibility, though I'd expect table variation for moving past opponents.

Silver Crusade ***** ⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Indiana—Bloomington aka CanisDirus

Because of how epic this scenario is, when I ran it, I prepared a soundtrack (and borrowed the speakers and subwoofer belonging my lodge's sound engineer who regularly does stuff like this at his tables)!

All of the players I asked about it afterwards said they felt it really added to the dramatic nature of the game, so, after working on one of these for SFS #1-07, I decided to post my list here!

Mike's The Lion Justice Soundtrack:

(R) means the track is on repeat until the game moves into the next scene. (R#) means that a group of tracks repeats.

  • HBO's Rome (Jeff Beal) - "Main Title Theme" - Pre-game & player intros (R)
  • HBO's Rome - "The Forum" - Character introductions & start of briefing (R)
  • HBO's Rome - "Marshal Law, The Temple" - Bjarte's interruption
  • HBO's Rome - "Vorenus Made Evocati, Sevilla's Curse" - Questions for Bjarte & travel to the Lion Blades (R)
  • E.S. Posthumus - "Saint Matthew Passion" - The estate and talking to the chamberlain (R)
  • E.S. Posthumus - "Durga" - Fighting the constructs (if it happens at all) (R)
  • E.S. Posthumus - "Tikal" - Ambushed by the slayers! (R)
  • E.S. Posthumus - "Moonlight Sonata" - Battle aftermath & the safe (R)
  • E.S. Posthumus - "Ashielf Pi" - Bringing proof to the Lion Blades (R)
  • E.S. Posthumus - "Varuna" - Racing to the Senate / Opening the doors (R)
  • Two Steps from Hell - "Dark Ages" - Doors open / seeing the slaughter in the senate
  • Two Steps from Hell - "Wrath of Sea" - Fighting Deckland (R1)
  • Two Steps from Hell - "Sons of War" - Fighting Deckland (R2)
  • Two Steps from Hell - "Nemesis" - Fighting Deckland (R3)
  • Two Steps from Hell - "Velocitron" - Fighting Deckland (R4)
  • Two Steps from Hell - "Titan Dune" - Fighting Deckland (R5)
  • Two Steps from Hell - "1000 Ships of the Underworld" - Fighting Deckland (R6)
  • HBO's Rome - "Niobe's Fate" - Gloriana Morilla / Status update (R)
  • Two Steps from Hell - "To Glory" - The last charge (R1)
  • Two Steps from Hell - "United We Stand, Divided We Fall" - The last charge (R2)
  • HBO's Rome - "Niobe's Theme" - Aftermath / Debrief / Kalbio (R)

Hope you enjoy!

Silver Crusade ***** ⦵⦵ RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

Would be considered breaking tactics to have Karina Deckland use her arcane pool to enhance her weapon? What about spell combat (her tactics only make allowances for spellstrike)?

Shadow Lodge ***** Venture-Lieutenant, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka thistledown

Mike Bramnik wrote:

Because of how epic this scenario is, when I ran it, I prepared a soundtrack (and borrowed the speakers and subwoofer belonging my lodge's sound engineer who regularly does stuff like this at his tables)!

All of the players I asked about it afterwards said they felt it really added to the dramatic nature of the game, so, after working on one of these for SFS #1-07, I decided to post my list here!

** spoiler omitted **...

If you wanted to be silly about it instead, you could slip in "At the Opera Oppara Tonight" from Repo Genetic Opera.

Shadow Lodge ***** Venture-Lieutenant, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka thistledown

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So, I just bought crownfall to aid in running this. I think I'm going to make a recording of Stavian's speech, and have it running as background music for Racing to the Senate.

There's also some nice pictures of Kalbio & Vernisant, and a bit of bio on Kalbio for why the party might want to res him.

***

I noticed that Vernisant's Challenge damage bonus is significantly lower than the rules say for a cavalier. I wonder if that's intentional for balancing effect or just a typo?

*****

I believe that's just the added effect on his order and is added to regular challenge benefits.

Grand Lodge **** Venture-Agent, France—Paris

Spoiler:
Order of the Cockatrice probably, one of the abilities being +1 to damage against the creature challenged every 4 cavalier levels and Dazzling Display as a bonus feat. So everything activated, it would amount to a +13 (tier 7-8) or +17 (tier 10-11) to damage on a successful hit as there's also the +1 damage per cavalier level.

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh aka Terminalmancer

James Anderson wrote:

So, I just bought crownfall to aid in running this. I think I'm going to make a recording of Stavian's speech, and have it running as background music for Racing to the Senate.

There's also some nice pictures of Kalbio & Vernisant, and a bit of bio on Kalbio for why the party might want to res him.

Sounds like a good plan to me. Honestly, when I ran it without the background info from Crownfall (which hadn't been released at that point), the scenario fell kind of flat for me. It was nicely paced and had some interesting challenges and everything, but it seemed like it belonged more in season 3. It felt like some of the depth we're used to getting was missing.

Having the extra content from the AP more than makes up for it and really makes me excited about what I could do with it if I ran it again!

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