Do the pact worlds and others only hold a single star system each?


General Discussion


Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

I'm wondering if my impression from the core book is correct: Do the pact worlds (as an entity) and many others only hold a single star system each? (with the exception of the atzlanti empire?)


it seems to me that the answer is no, although anything outside the the main solar system is either a protectorate or colony. Although I may be wrong


Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Richard Gay wrote:
it seems to me that the answer is no, although anything outside the the main solar system is either a protectorate or colony. Although I may be wrong

Originally I had also thought about protectorate or colony, but didn't even see those (thus "holding" in my question means also colonies and protectorates)a


The Azlanti Star Empire has a dozen star systems, according to its entry in the CRB. The others appear to be single systems though.


Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Andy Brown wrote:

The Azlanti Star Empire has a dozen star systems, according to its entry in the CRB. The others appear to be single systems though.

tnx then its as I had thought . will have to take that into account for the adventure I'm creating.


KageNoRyu wrote:
Richard Gay wrote:
it seems to me that the answer is no, although anything outside the the main solar system is either a protectorate or colony. Although I may be wrong
Originally I had also thought about protectorate or colony, but didn't even see those (thus "holding" in my question means also colonies and protectorates)a

There are planets in the Pact Worlds system itself that are protectorates. Liavara is a protectorate of Bretheda. Aucturn is a self-governing protectorate of the Pact Council, as are the various settlements of the Diaspora. Various member Pact Worlds and organisations from the Pact Worlds have colonies and outposts elsewhere in the galaxy; the Starfinder Society has interstellar holdings, for example. There are Pact Worlds protectorates outside the system, but they have to have requested this status on a voluntary basis.

The Veskarium is a centralized empire and presumably acquires any "protectorates" it might have by conquest, but otherwise I have the impression that it operates on much the same kind of scale as the Pact Worlds.

The Azlanti Star Empire controls twelve star systems and presumably operates far beyond those systems. It's a civilisation that roughly matches the combined power of the Veskarium and the Pact..


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Core Rulebook > Setting > Beyond the Pact Worlds (pg. 462) wrote:

Although alliances and conquest may give rise to interstellar entities such as the Azlanti Star Empire and the Veskarium, such hegemonies still remain fairly rare and localized in the grand scheme of things.

Most planetary civilizations run according to their own tenets and may have limited trade with (or even knowledge of) other worlds.

According to the CRB, most governments are planet-scale or smaller. Multi-planet organizations are rare, with the Pact Worlds and the Veskarium being the only two that immediately spring to mind. As far as multi-star system governments, the Azlanti Star Empire is the only one I know of.


Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Hmmmm with Mist only having a single world. Ian wondering what size their respective navies have? And infos on that if they are a couple,dozens,hundreds or thousands of starships?


Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

And before i doeget is there some uniform government for the pactworlds? Disnt see anyrhing in rhe book but could be inoverread something there


Jimbles the Mediocre wrote:
Core Rulebook > Setting > Beyond the Pact Worlds (pg. 462) wrote:

Although alliances and conquest may give rise to interstellar entities such as the Azlanti Star Empire and the Veskarium, such hegemonies still remain fairly rare and localized in the grand scheme of things.

Most planetary civilizations run according to their own tenets and may have limited trade with (or even knowledge of) other worlds.

According to the CRB, most governments are planet-scale or smaller. Multi-planet organizations are rare, with the Pact Worlds and the Veskarium being the only two that immediately spring to mind. As far as multi-star system governments, the Azlanti Star Empire is the only one I know of.

You just quoted the CRB as stating that the Veskarium is a multi star system government.


The Vesk own their whole star system. I'm going to have a Shi'ar/Masters of the Universe type star cluster rich with possibilities. Space travel is prolific between star systems, but the Pact world's are far and there is no Drift. However there are over a quarter million stars within 200 Lys.of it's center.


Something to remember is that easy interstellar travel has only existed for 300 years. Before that, FTL was rare and extremely expensive. There are few multi-system civilizations, because by and large the ability to maintain and operate a multi-system society only really showed up with the Drift Drive. Thus, both the Pact Worlds and the Veskarium are young interstellar nations, where all the mature worlds are in their home system.

The Azlanti Star Empire is the exception. While some of their member systems are probably post-Drift, I suspect they were already a multi-system empire. How did they manage that? Probably a mix of time, generally higher tech/magic level, and sheer bloody minded stubbornness. Most civilizations, on realizing they'd need a whole planet's GDP in FTL ships to maintain governmental and cultural continuity with their newly founded colony system, just accept that their colony will be a new society with limited and loose ties of trade and culture. The Azlanti? They actually said "Well, I guess Not-Mars is now going to retool and do nothing but manufacture FTL ships, forever."


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
quindraco wrote:
You just quoted the CRB as stating that the Veskarium is a multi star system government.

Yeah, the CRB isn't terribly clear on that. In a couple places, it alludes to the Veskarium being a multi-star empire ("cradle of a mighty interstellar war machine"), but the actual entry on the organization calls it an "eight-planet solar system", implying they're currently only holding a single star.

My guess is the Veskarium is transitioning from multi-planet to multi-star at this current point in history.


Jimbles the Mediocre wrote:
quindraco wrote:
You just quoted the CRB as stating that the Veskarium is a multi star system government.

Yeah, the CRB isn't terribly clear on that. In a couple places, it alludes to the Veskarium being a multi-star empire ("cradle of a mighty interstellar war machine"), but the actual entry on the organization calls it an "eight-planet solar system", implying they're currently only holding a single star.

My guess is the Veskarium is transitioning from multi-planet to multi-star at this current point in history.

Since they keep naming the planets after themselves, it's not inconceivable that "Veskarium" can refer to both the empire and the system that includes Vesk Prime.


Is there a official Galaxy map? I found a map that is 200 lys. Per square.


It will be interesting to see how they go about mapping the galaxy, because the Drift makes conventional proximity irrelevant. Points are "nearer" or "further" away based on whether they have drift beacons, so a star system technically close to Absalom Station could in practical terms be "out in the Vast."

Jimbles the Mediocre wrote:
quindraco wrote:
You just quoted the CRB as stating that the Veskarium is a multi star system government.

Yeah, the CRB isn't terribly clear on that. In a couple places, it alludes to the Veskarium being a multi-star empire ("cradle of a mighty interstellar war machine"), but the actual entry on the organization calls it an "eight-planet solar system", implying they're currently only holding a single star.

My guess is the Veskarium is transitioning from multi-planet to multi-star at this current point in history.

I feel like it's left kind of intentionally vauge but my impression is that the Veskarium and the Pact Worlds are both civilizations focused in single systems but that operate well beyond them. The parallel adventures of the US and Russia during the Cold War are a probable analogue to the Silent War that long prevailed between Vesk and Pact. Now there's effectively the beginnings of a new Silent War between these two old adversaries and the Azlanti.


CeeJay wrote:

It will be interesting to see how they go about mapping the galaxy, because the Drift makes conventional proximity irrelevant. Points are "nearer" or "further" away based on whether they have drift beacons, so a star system technically close to Absalom Station could in practical terms be "out in the Vast."

Jimbles the Mediocre wrote:
quindraco wrote:
You just quoted the CRB as stating that the Veskarium is a multi star system government.

Yeah, the CRB isn't terribly clear on that. In a couple places, it alludes to the Veskarium being a multi-star empire ("cradle of a mighty interstellar war machine"), but the actual entry on the organization calls it an "eight-planet solar system", implying they're currently only holding a single star.

My guess is the Veskarium is transitioning from multi-planet to multi-star at this current point in history.

I feel like it's left kind of intentionally vauge but my impression is that the Veskarium and the Pact Worlds are both civilizations focused in single systems but that operate well beyond them. The parallel adventures of the US and Russia during the Cold War are a probable analogue to the Silent War that long prevailed between Vesk and Pact. Now there's effectively the beginnings of a new Silent War between these two old adversaries and the Azlanti.

The Vesk actually got the Drift drive late - from Pact Worlds explorers.

Given their aggressive nature, it would make sense if they'd colonized/conquered some weaker systems before they clashed openly with the Pact Worlds. And possibly since.
Such might still be more in the protectorate/colony stage, rather than fully integrated into the Veskarium.


doc chaos wrote:
Is there a official Galaxy map? I found a map that is 200 lys. Per square.

On that sort of scale you've got thousands of stars (and potentially systems) within each square (cube? space is 3d, and the galactic disk averages something like 1,000 ly thick). 500 such squares would nicely fit the entire Milky Way galaxy - makes for a pretty big map to print out, though.


And it'd be mostly useless, since as mentioned, physical location is mostly irrelevant to FTL travel. Its not *entirely* irrelevant, since all else being equal, its probably easier to get to an uncharted star system if its nearby, and thus has good astronomical observations, but still.

When they do eventually put together a map, I suspect it will be organized by Drift Proximity followed by Political Relationship, with scarcely any reference to physical location.


Bluenose wrote:
doc chaos wrote:
Is there a official Galaxy map? I found a map that is 200 lys. Per square.
On that sort of scale you've got thousands of stars (and potentially systems) within each square (cube? space is 3d, and the galactic disk averages something like 1,000 ly thick). 500 such squares would nicely fit the entire Milky Way galaxy - makes for a pretty big map to print out, though.

Yeah! The Galaxy is huge. Without Drift it's almost impossible to leave a sector. Under Dragonstar spaceship rules it's still a very long way.

How are the other systems like Starjammer and Aethera? Spelljammer speeds increase exponentially.


Metaphysician wrote:

And it'd be mostly useless, since as mentioned, physical location is mostly irrelevant to FTL travel. Its not *entirely* irrelevant, since all else being equal, its probably easier to get to an uncharted star system if its nearby, and thus has good astronomical observations, but still.

When they do eventually put together a map, I suspect it will be organized by Drift Proximity followed by Political Relationship, with scarcely any reference to physical location.

It might not even be a map. Something like the charts of travel distance/time that you get in many atlases, with the time between different places listed, would serve perfectly well. You might need maps of star systems but their location relative to each other is less relevant than the time it takes to get between them.

doc chaos wrote:
Bluenose wrote:
doc chaos wrote:
Is there a official Galaxy map? I found a map that is 200 lys. Per square.
On that sort of scale you've got thousands of stars (and potentially systems) within each square (cube? space is 3d, and the galactic disk averages something like 1,000 ly thick). 500 such squares would nicely fit the entire Milky Way galaxy - makes for a pretty big map to print out, though.

Yeah! The Galaxy is huge. Without Drift it's almost impossible to leave a sector. Under Dragonstar spaceship rules it's still a very long way.

How are the other systems like Starjammer and Aethera? Spelljammer speeds increase exponentially.

Starfinder is a bit unusual for RPG settings in that it effectively has more than one type of FTL depending on whether artificial constructions have been put into particular systems or not. There are some I can think of where the only FTL uses either natural or artificial 'gateways' and many more where there's no 'short cuts' that shorten travel time between systems, but what Starfinder has is something I've only seen in a few places - Master of Orion has both normal FTL, relatively slow, between neighbouring systems and at high tech levels artifical warpgates that can take you across the galaxy fast, and Stellaris and Mass Effect both have something similar.


I think one reason they don't appear to be a multisystem polity is they have not had the drift engine for that long. The aztlanti empire was using other methods to colonize neighboring systems over a longer period of time. I am guessing with pact worlds we will see talk about colonies and outposts and future expansion that has not really solidified yet into actual major power hubs.


I have the impression from reading the flavor-text that they intentionally left this vague to let individual groups play the way they wanted to. Outside of some of the SFS material, it seams to only vaguely reference various 'colonies' or 'protected status' worlds. I expect that they're assuming the pact worlds and some of the others are multi-system entities but we're supposed to decide what exactly that means ourselves.


Update. I just noticed in the description of the second AP that the players will start out on a Pact Worlds colony in another system, so I think officially the PW at least is considered a multi-star power in canon now.


pithica42 wrote:
Update. I just noticed in the description of the second AP that the players will start out on a Pact Worlds colony in another system, so I think officially the PW at least is considered a multi-star power in canon now.

I thought that much was clear - there are colonies and protectorates outside Golarion's solar system, but none of them have reached the status of Pact World.

It's not really a multi-star power. It's a single star system with some dependents that might eventually make it an actual multi-start power. I read the Veskarium to be along the same lines - though with their dependencies more traditionally colonial/imperial - conquered worlds and the like.

A matter of definition, I suppose, but by contrast with the Aztlanti, who control a dozen systems.


thejeff wrote:
pithica42 wrote:
Update. I just noticed in the description of the second AP that the players will start out on a Pact Worlds colony in another system, so I think officially the PW at least is considered a multi-star power in canon now.

I thought that much was clear - there are colonies and protectorates outside Golarion's solar system, but none of them have reached the status of Pact World.

It's not really a multi-star power. It's a single star system with some dependents that might eventually make it an actual multi-start power. I read the Veskarium to be along the same lines - though with their dependencies more traditionally colonial/imperial - conquered worlds and the like.

A matter of definition, I suppose, but by contrast with the Aztlanti, who control a dozen systems.

This was my take on it. Over time they will be a multi star system power but right now they are still in the colonization/exploration stage. The azlanti have been working on that via magic and slow boats for a very long time. The Veskarium does seem to be similar. Total domination over their own star system with expanding colonies/protectorates and what not in other systems.


kaid wrote:
thejeff wrote:
pithica42 wrote:
Update. I just noticed in the description of the second AP that the players will start out on a Pact Worlds colony in another system, so I think officially the PW at least is considered a multi-star power in canon now.

I thought that much was clear - there are colonies and protectorates outside Golarion's solar system, but none of them have reached the status of Pact World.

It's not really a multi-star power. It's a single star system with some dependents that might eventually make it an actual multi-start power. I read the Veskarium to be along the same lines - though with their dependencies more traditionally colonial/imperial - conquered worlds and the like.

A matter of definition, I suppose, but by contrast with the Aztlanti, who control a dozen systems.

This was my take on it. Over time they will be a multi star system power but right now they are still in the colonization/exploration stage. The azlanti have been working on that via magic and slow boats for a very long time. The Veskarium does seem to be similar. Total domination over their own star system with expanding colonies/protectorates and what not in other systems.

The section on the Azlanti in the CRB does say "until the discovery of the Drift enabled them to conquer nearby star systems and their inhabitants, giving rise to the Azlanti Star Empire", so it seems they were mostly confined to one system until recently.

Community / Forums / Starfinder / Starfinder General Discussion / Do the pact worlds and others only hold a single star system each? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Starfinder General Discussion