Cad - Deadly Surprise / Dirty Trick / Feint clarfication


Rules Questions


I would like some help understanding the Deadly Surprise Cad ability and whether it stacks with several other feats

So DS works if the opponent is denied dex

Improved feint does this

Quick dirty trick allows a melee attack to be replaced by a dirty trick

So could improved feint be used to feint as a move and dirty trick as a standard?

And does Deadly surprise kick in after this considering it is an attack with a weapon (I don’t believe it says damage is needed ) - meaning two tricks in one round ?

And finally if Kitsune Tricks is added would this mean four conditions in one round (assuming successful bluff and two successful CMB checks ?)

I feel there must be something I have missed here that means this is not right but wanted to check . If not that is some nasty debuffing at level 7 and horrendous debuffing at level 11 with Dirty Trick Master

The Exchange

Dirty trick is a standard action anyway, so yes, you can Improved Feint as a move action, then Dirty Trick as a standard action.

Quick Dirty Trick is for when you're using a full-round action to gain multiple attacks (two-weapon fighting or iterative attacks or the like) and lets you replace the first of these with a dirty trick (e.g. blinding your foe) then continue on with the rest of your attacks (with your foe sucking the penalties of being blind). Quick Dirty Trick is great 'cos you get to follow-up before the foe gets to take his turn and remove the effects of the dirty trick.

The question with Deadly Surprise is whether a dirty trick counts as 'an attack with a weapon or unarmed' or not. The FAQs have tended to go back and forth a bit on what's 'a weapon attack' over the years, but I believe that dirty trick would qualify, but not get any bonuses associated with that weapon (like from Weapon Focus or whatever) - in any case, I believe it should still trigger Deadly Surprise (although if anyone knows otherwise I'd like to know!).

On the other hand, if you're packing Quick Dirty Trick anyway you're likely better off just full-attacking, using a dirty trick to blind your foe (causing him to, along with other penalties, lose his Dexterity bonus to AC), then hitting him with the rest of your attacks and (assuming at least one of them hits) spending the immediate action to use Deadly Surprise. Blind-stab-stab-entangle's a pretty nifty thing to be able to do on a regular basis... :)

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